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Sadly, there is no return to anything, mere wishful thinking IMHO.
Humans invented a "hereafter" to lessen the "pain" of their own mortality.
What made you use to believe there was an hereafter ? How did humans invent such a thing ? Why is it sad if you believe it to be that way ?
10-22-2014, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nezlie
The second one, dispersal, indicates that our component parts break down and are recycled back into nature..... and they possibly become nutrients for other life forms (plants, animals, fungi, etc.). In this case the Source is nature.
p.s. I can't say that I disagree with what you said.
I would make a distinction between the mind and the energy/matter that it spring from. The mind would be extinct and the energy/matter dispersed.
This is a phrase that we occasionally come across in the area of spirituality......... that after death we return back to 'the Source.' From your viewpoint (as an atheist, agnostic or a religious individual), how would you describe 'the Source' from where we come from and return to.
“When the light returns to its source, it takes nothing of what it has illuminated.” ― Rumi
This is more or less the Buddhist concept of rebirth (not to be confused with reincarnation). The usual metaphor is that we are a drop of water returning to the ocean ... said ocean usually being seen as a "universal consciousness". Rebirth, unlike reincarnation, does not teach that our consciousness, or anything recognizably "us" as individuals, will survive death -- at least not in any greater sense than that a drop of water survives once it splashed into an ocean (or puddle, for that matter).
This makes sense as it's comparable to what happens to our bodies. Our bodies cease to be organized as "our" bodies. Different parts decay at different rates, but eventually, while we don't cease to exist, we are effectively recycled as raw elements. Similarly, even if our consciousness is a "thing" like a body (which I think unlikely), that is likely to be its fate. More likely in my mind is that our consciousness is simply a particular configuration of "things" (a brain, neurotransmitters, electrical impulses, etc) plus events / experiences. When the experiences stop and the substrate for registering and recalling and thinking about those experiences decays, consciousness is gone.
"The Source" is just a personalization, or the ascribing of unwarranted agency, to the universe. The universe is less a source than a big dogpile of "stuff" that is constantly in churn. We are particularly interesting (to us) results of that churn -- for a time.
This is more or less the Buddhist concept of rebirth (not to be confused with reincarnation). The usual metaphor is that we are a drop of water returning to the ocean ... said ocean usually being seen as a "universal consciousness". Rebirth, unlike reincarnation, does not teach that our consciousness, or anything recognizably "us" as individuals, will survive death -- at least not in any greater sense than that a drop of water survives once it splashed into an ocean (or puddle, for that matter).
This makes sense as it's comparable to what happens to our bodies. Our bodies cease to be organized as "our" bodies. Different parts decay at different rates, but eventually, while we don't cease to exist, we are effectively recycled as raw elements. Similarly, even if our consciousness is a "thing" like a body (which I think unlikely), that is likely to be its fate. More likely in my mind is that our consciousness is simply a particular configuration of "things" (a brain, neurotransmitters, electrical impulses, etc) plus events / experiences. When the experiences stop and the substrate for registering and recalling and thinking about those experiences decays, consciousness is gone.
"The Source" is just a personalization, or the ascribing of unwarranted agency, to the universe. The universe is less a source than a big dogpile of "stuff" that is constantly in churn. We are particularly interesting (to us) results of that churn -- for a time.
I'm reminded of this personalization whenever I take some green waste (food waste, yard clippings, etc.) out to the compost bin. Everything there, on that small visible scale, is being churned and broken down by bacteria, fungi, worms and the heat produced into a rich humus which will provide nutrients needed by new living plants in the garden. This is also a reminder of how all living things depend on the dead for their own survival. Who knows what the nutrients flowing through our bodies right now actually were in other lifetimes. And so, we also sooner or later will have to give up and return what we have borrowed from the earth (think of everything we have each consumed) during our own lifetime to keep our bodies going.
This productive soil or earth has become the symbolic 'source' for me.
From the stars we came, to the stars we shall return.
Better that than an eternity on your knees mumbling praises and singing hymns (that all sound alike).
Even as a Christian, I found that prospect unappealing. It was assumed that in heaven, we would somehow magically have different interests / tastes than the supposedly god-given ones we already had. Elevated, perfected, pure, un-fallen interests and desires. Which begged the question of why we aren't simply configured for heaven in the first place; it'd certainly make church attendance more compelling.
It is odd to think that if we were not "fallen", we would just be having praise-i-gasms 24/7 for the Lord. Or that god would even want such toadies.
As a child in Sunday School my teacher opined, with absolutely no scriptural justification whatsoever (and yes, fundamentalists can improvise when they want to) that heaven was in fact a place where we did much more than just worship god. That we would have jobs to do, that god would delegate the governance of the universe to us, allow us to explore it, and so forth. A cutsie-poo story was related of a Southern boy who asked his paster if there'd be fried chicken in heaven. The answer: of course, if you want it.
This riffs off the promise that god has "prepared a mansion" in heaven for us. THAT is how I believe most fundamentalists see heaven, as a highly idealized and pain-free version of earthy life, with anything you could want (so long as it doesn't involve sex) provided to you, no strings attached. Hence my favorite joke about the old guy and his wife dying, going to heaven, and realizing they could eat all sorts of food without worrying about their health -- he turns to his wife and says, "If it wasn't for your blasted bran muffins we could have been here ten years ago!"
From the stars we came, to the stars we shall return.
Better that than an eternity on your knees mumbling praises and singing hymns (that all sound alike).
How would you feel about spending eternity with someone you love more than any other?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Even as a Christian, I found that prospect unappealing. It was assumed that in heaven, we would somehow magically have different interests / tastes than the supposedly god-given ones we already had. Elevated, perfected, pure, un-fallen interests and desires. Which begged the question of why we aren't simply configured for heaven in the first place; it'd certainly make church attendance more compelling.
It is odd to think that if we were not "fallen", we would just be having praise-i-gasms 24/7 for the Lord. Or that god would even want such toadies.
As a child in Sunday School my teacher opined, with absolutely no scriptural justification whatsoever (and yes, fundamentalists can improvise when they want to) that heaven was in fact a place where we did much more than just worship god. That we would have jobs to do, that god would delegate the governance of the universe to us, allow us to explore it, and so forth. A cutsie-poo story was related of a Southern boy who asked his paster if there'd be fried chicken in heaven. The answer: of course, if you want it.
This riffs off the promise that god has "prepared a mansion" in heaven for us. THAT is how I believe most fundamentalists see heaven, as a highly idealized and pain-free version of earthy life, with anything you could want (so long as it doesn't involve sex) provided to you, no strings attached. Hence my favorite joke about the old guy and his wife dying, going to heaven, and realizing they could eat all sorts of food without worrying about their health -- he turns to his wife and says, "If it wasn't for your blasted bran muffins we could have been here ten years ago!"
Scripture tells us that in heaven, we will experience God's riches, there will be no pain or sorrow. Yeah, that sounds awful.
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