Why aren't more people Christians and follow Christ? (priests, faith, believers)
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Won't give up your inaccurate data? So just because the federal government came up with a data based on few percentage of people, it must be accurate?
Actually all my sources are a fact, not opinion. Let's say if your so-called data is accurate, what about the other 2 billion Christians (may God bless them) worldwide?
Countries historically and present with state atheism = most horrible life condition. Look at N. Korea as one example, and former Soviet Union! No wonder atheists cannot ever be trusted and hold public office!!
I've already shown how my data is accurate.
You linked to opinion pieces (blogs) and a poll.
You're picking extremists. Take a look at the wars that your Christian Presidents have created. You love to spend money on all these wars. What great representation of religion there. Factual, actually. Christianity and other religions are all about war.
Btw, The United States has many atheists that hold public office. Not that I'm trying to support atheists here. I'm just presenting facts.
Never mind; I found my own global info, and it seems to follow the U.S. less education = more religion (generally) model:
Quote:
A recent National Bureau of Economic Research paper by Naci Mocan and Luiza Pogorelova gives ammunition to anti-education zealots. In a study of the impact of compulsory schooling reforms in the 1960s and ’70s in Europe, they find an associated decline in the number of people who claimed to be very religious and the number who went to religious services. Specifically, they suggest that one additional year of schooling in Europe was associated with a 10 percent reduction in the propensity to attend religious services once a week or more.
Link. (A link to the paper can be found there too.)
So yeah, at a glance, anyway, this seems to follow globally and is not specific to Christianity (which constitutes 33% of the globe), but ALL religions combined. So...being very religious and being less educated do seem to have a link, whether you like that or not. Of course, this is regarding attending religious services, and not everyone who has a belief of a religious nature attends religious services. However, overall the very religious DO tend to attend services...again, whether you like that or not.
Now what that could be pointing to, but I may just be dreaming and this is obviously just (hopeful) supposition on my part, is that people are FINALLY getting the idea that the standard Christian "religions" do not frequently follow the actual teachings of Christ (except for that one failsafe that you can do whatever strikes you since you're human and bound to fail anyway, but as long as you "accept Christ" you'll be forgiven...dangerous, IMO, but it is what it is) - and that they're trying to actually figure out what such things as charity and non-judgment mean.
^^ May apply to non-Christian religions yes. Not all religious people are Christians or act like a true Christian.
You forgot to mention that Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. were militant atheists and murdered and persecuted millions of people in the name of atheism! Soviet Union ended 23 years ago only...
I won't even argue with the assertion that they committed their crimes "in the name of atheism," because that's so ridiculous on the face of it that it would be a waste of keystrokes. But you're right - those atheist dictators killed around 80 million people.
But are you forgetting the millions of people killed in the name of Christianity during the Crusades? I noticed you left that out. Some estimates place the death toll as high as 9,000,000, which would be about 2.5% of the world population at the time. And of course, let's not forget the native Americans exterminated by the European Conquest of the New World, which some historians placed as high as 100,000,000 souls.
If I were a Christian, I wouldn't get so high and mighty about Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot.
But are you forgetting the millions of people killed in the name of Christianity during the Crusades? I noticed you left that out. Some estimates place the death toll as high as 9,000,000, which would be about 2.5% of the world population at the time. And of course, let's not forget the native Americans exterminated by the European Conquest of the New World, which some historians placed as high as 100,000,000 souls.
Nor should we forget the Spanish Inquisition...or for that matter, "witch" trials of every possible description in Europe (and eventually, in the U.S., constituting a tiny percentage) for centuries. Nor the execution of "heretics" in the thousands, tens of thousands or more on the part of changing hands among royalty and therefore, changing "sects" of Christianity, in various nations; of course England, with the whole Henry - Mary - Elizabeth see-saw terror debacle for decades comes to mind, but it's not exclusive, certainly.
And what about the pogroms organized against the Jews for centuries all over Europe?
Like the Crusades, these atrocities weren't committed by people who happened to be Christians, they were committed specifically in the name of whatever the "in vogue" sect of Christianity was at the time. They were specifically committed in the name of the Christian God, there was and is no question.
Won't give up your inaccurate data? So just because the federal government came up with a data based on few percentage of people, it must be accurate?
Actually all my sources are a fact, not opinion. Let's say if your so-called data is accurate, what about the other 2 billion Christians (may God bless them) worldwide?
Countries historically and present with state atheism = most horrible life condition. Look at N. Korea as one example, and former Soviet Union! No wonder atheists cannot ever be trusted and hold public office!!
What a bunch of crap.
When are you people going to learn that what happens in N. Korea or the USSR has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism?
You seem to think that just because communism is an atheistic system, atheism must be the root cause of whatever you're yapping your gums about. That's about as accurate as saying that, because Hitler was an animal lover, caring about animals caused the Holocaust.
You have to show PROOF ... you have to show a direct correlation between atheism and whatever atrocities took place in communist nations. You have to present EVIDENCE that those atrocities took place because of atheism and NOT for some other reason - such as politics, corruption, or the sick and twisted minds of those in charge.
I'm so sick and tired of people like you trying to link atheism with all of the bad things that happened within SOME communist regimes - and all you folks ever do is simply state it. You don't back it up, you don't correlate your data (assuming you even have any), and you never provide any evidence that atheism specifically was the direct cause of the bad behavior of communist leaders.
I can do that with religion. Can you do that with atheism? I don't think you can - else you would have done so by now. Can you explain to me how atheism was a direct cause of the purges under Stalin? Hmm? Can you show me how atheism was the direct cause of the famines in North Korea? Can you point to even one single suicide bomber that shouted "for atheism!" (as opposed to "God is great!") before detonating himself?
And ... given the huge number of people who believe in God, do you REALLY think that every single member of the communist party was actually an atheist? SERIOUSLY?!
You need to get your facts straight before you accuse atheists of being untrustworthy in public office. Because right now your "facts" (such as they are) are as crooked as a pretzel.
Get back to me after you've actually picked up a history book or two and read them. Perhaps then you won't be so quick to propagate the ignorance you're currently spewing.
I feel like you think I'm an atheist. I'm not; I'm a proud Jew. And I know that atheist societies have been violent. But, so has every other society in this world.
I'm not a hypocrite. I have made mistakes, just like everyone else. But I don't think I'm a bad person. I admit when I'm wrong and apologize when necessary.
As for your doctrine, I find it ridiculous. If that's what Jesus believed, then he was a hypocrite. Jesus can't go around preaching love one moment, then say that he came to bring a sword and that anyone who's made a mistake is damned to Hell unless they follow him. That's using fear-mongering. Christianity has done this for thousands of years, and finally people are starting to wake up and run away from that crap. If you really think about what Jesus was preaching, it was no different than the beliefs of the Reform Jewish movement. As for your comment on the "wrath of G-d"...Judaism doesn't believe in Hell. We believe in a loving and forgiving G-d. Many Christians claim to believe in the same one, yet you preach that It will damn all non-believers to Hell, yada yada yada. Again, Protestant hypocrisy.
Is this (below) not true?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Here's the definition of hypocrite.
a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.
Double defensive!! Someone needs to take a bible course, it shows
I'm quite sure I'm more well versed in the bible than you are.....40+ years as a christian and lots of bible study will prove it. Are you saying that because of your quote from the bible that you used to insult me? Yes I know where it came from so nice try but no candy.
It seems you are just here to insult and sling stupid one liners, your ********* is showing. How about you offer up some sort of real discourse instead of accusations and insults? Come on, do you even know how to debate? Want to debate about the bible then let's go! But since I already won the argument guess you don't feel like getting beat up anymore.
How about actually addressing my posts? Or getting in on a real discussion like the one happening right now in this thread? I don't think you have the chops. I believe it's WAY over your head. But please, do correct me if I'm wrong.
Mordant where in the bible does he say he whipped them, He did turn over tables for making a mockery of the temple for profit-making.
"And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables." (from the gospel of John)
Quote:
Originally Posted by perry335654
Also Jesus was talking to His disciples and telling them what to expect while going door-to door. He was alluding to the fact that there would be friction or division between the families that believed and didn't believe. One has to put on a shield of armor when going out to proclaim God as one is persecuted for their endeavors. This wasn't about sharing warm fuzzies to the world, this was about getting everyone on the same page that a Savior was here and it wasn't going to be an easy task, as some believed in the Messiah others did not.
I actually did not have a particular problem with this passage in my Christian days and do not now, as I basically understood it as you do. However, it does point out that any truly transformative truth will not result in love, peace, and joy, as by its very nature it will be disruptive. Part of my objection to the OP is that it seems to assume that if we all invite Jesus in we will All Just Get Along. I did not believe this when I believed in Jesus and I do not believe it now. It is simplistic and false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by perry335654
The slavery issue in biblical times was about a way for a family to sell someone off to owners so they would not starve to death and done in an appropriate way much different than the southern slave owners.
It still assumes slavery as a given and does not command slaveowners to set their slaves free.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.
The word "repent" merely means "to change one's mind" regarding the rightness or wrongness of a given action. People change their minds all the time. Thinking they won't do that without god's enticements and/or threats, is simply disempowering people to make their own decisions and denigrating their ability to use their own judgment. Which, paradoxically, is apt to cause people to continue to be douchebags rather than stopping it.
It is also insisting that they change their mind about certain things that have been arbitrarily declared "sinful" rather than about actual harms. Hence for example you would have people waste time and energy behaving in a particular way sexually when it is likely far more important for them to be paying attention to practices like racism, sexism, and all the various forms of otherizing.
Originally Posted by jimmiej Here's the definition of hypocrite.
a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.
Everyone does that at some point.
On purpose and knowingly ...like some Christians that preach love and acceptance and not judging but judge and condemn others continuously.
People that just make bad decisions sometimes because they're human or temporarily weak don't fit the description.
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