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Old 11-30-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
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Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I want 10%...of the gross, not net.

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Old 11-30-2014, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
In this instance, ["repent"] means to "do a 180", with regards to sin. Where God comes into the picture is that our relationship with Him is then "repaired". When a person is in a right relationship with God, they desire to please Him with righteous living, acted out in love toward others.
In scripture you will encounter phrases such as "god repented that he had made man" (the reason for the flood). He made man, and he changed his mind about that being a Good Idea. He admitted he was mistaken to create man. So even god understands this concept.

Sermons explaining sin that I ever heard invariably liken repenting to changing one's mind -- in this case about the badness of sin, so yes that would be a 180, I suppose.

But it is still changing one's opinion or judgement about the goodness / badness of a particular action. It is not some mysterious $25 theological word with esoteric significance that requires that theological underpinning to be valid. When a particular thing is labeled "sin" then there is a corresponding incantation called "repentance" that is required but if you remove the theological connotations it is simply saying, for example, "ya know, stealing from others is dysfunctional and has brought me nothing but grief -- I am going to knock that off."

I daresay that many believers would opine that this would not be good enough, if it is not directed at god in the form of contrite prayer, and possibly coupled with public disavowal in front of a church assembly, it wouldn't count for removing what they conceive as the "stain of sin". Yet if I quit stealing simply because I think it's in my rational self interest to do so, the end result is still the same: no more thieving. The harm is removed from society. Society's censure and shunning and penalizing is also removed once known past debts are paid. But for some reason god would continue to regard you as a sinner, in the eyes of some at least, if you don't don sackcloth and ashes and prostrate yourself specifically before god on the matter.

My point is that repentance is just as efficacious either way, so no god(s) need be a part of it. It is simply recognizing the harm in an action, and determining to stop the harmful action. Barnacling that with religious overhead is unhelpful.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:10 PM
 
30,902 posts, read 33,164,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
In scripture you will encounter phrases such as "god repented that he had made man" (the reason for the flood). He made man, and he changed his mind about that being a Good Idea. He admitted he was mistaken to create man. So even god understands this concept.
And therefore, God makes mistakes too.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,341,414 times
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Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
And therefore, God makes mistakes too.
The biblical god is extremely fallible.

Almost like he was created in man's image....
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Old 11-30-2014, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
And therefore, God makes mistakes too.
Precisely ;-)
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Old 11-30-2014, 09:43 PM
 
Location: California
37,199 posts, read 42,425,431 times
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Some of us have nothing to repent of. I wouldn't have anything to confess either. I'm pretty at peace with everything I've done in life and I'm smart enough to be embarrassed by mistakes I made or the things I've done that weren't up to snuff and have not done them again. Granted, my life has been mostly boring and above board but I can't be the only one.

I think there is a lot of personal philosophy involved in someone turning to religion (as opposed to be raised with religion which is a whole other beast). People who know they've done wrong or acted ignorantly or made mistakes, but can't manage to move on from that and need outside validation (forgiveness) even if it's just in theory.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Glasgow, UK
865 posts, read 1,082,553 times
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For one thing, I'm not capable of brainwashing myself to believe in something just because it makes me feel good.

Secondly, if I were, there are lots of things in which I'd much rather believe, if I were giving my imagination/desire full reign over my intellect.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:41 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,680,804 times
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people don't like Christianity because of Christians. But I think it's the few that misrepresent Christ that do the most damage. Not the regular person. Like any other group.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,182 posts, read 26,338,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
people don't like Christianity because of Christians. But I think it's the few that misrepresent Christ that do the most damage. Not the regular person. Like any other group.
I don't 'like' Christianity because it teaches that pure innocent children are taught to believe they are tainted from the get-go by some sin of two people they don't even know , born thousands of years ago and they'll remain worthless and in dire danger unless they can somehow atone for that sin that they didn't even commit rather than as blank slates that can have written on them all loving, optimistic and encouraging things.
We get all outraged over the innocent people that are found guilty and sent to jail but not over generations of these babes. that are guilty already and told their fate is much worse.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
89,077 posts, read 85,670,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Any person who claims to be "good" (Christian, atheist or in between), and does wrong, is a hypocrite. IOW, we're all hypocrites-it's the human condition. To claim Christians or religious people in general are hypocrites, is a case of pot/kettle.
Good point. A woman I know says that saying there are hypocrites at church is just like saying that there are fat people at the gym. Well...yeah.

The problem is that both the Christian telling everyone else what they should do and the gym rat telling everyone else how to exercise are annoying.
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