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Rest assured, I have been looking into these sorts of questions for quite some time now. That is why the moment I saw your post I knew it was the commonly seen "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic" argument. I have never seen someone post the "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic" argument and then supplement it with something like:
So using just one example - when the religous leaders wanted to kill him for claiming he was God, was he...
A. Lying
B. Insane
C. Telling the truth.
Why was "just a regular" guy put to death via crucifixion? Doesn't make sense.
Was Peter also
A. Lying
B. Insane
C. Telling the Truth
2Pe 1:16 We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[fn1]
2Pe 1:18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
So lie or truth?
Jesus never claimed to be God was your #1 reason against what I wrote.
So how do you reconcile:
Jhn 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
I'll just leave that one as it speaks for itself. You can go ahead and use the Bill Clinton arguement that says "is" really doesn't mean "is". But it says what it says.
So using just one example - when the religous leaders wanted to kill him for claiming he was God, was he...
A. Lying
B. Insane
C. Telling the truth.
Why was "just a regular" guy put to death via crucifixion? Doesn't make sense.
Was Peter also
A. Lying
B. Insane
C. Telling the Truth
2Pe 1:16 We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[fn1]
2Pe 1:18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
So lie or truth?
One question. If We know the majority of the Jews knew that the Messiah was supposed to be a man and not god than why would the religious leaders think his(jesus) claim was true? If Jesus was the messiah he would be the Messiah for the Jews and it would have little impact for the gentiles.
One question. If We know the majority of the Jews knew that the Messiah was supposed to be a man and not god than why would the religious leaders think his(jesus) claim was true? If Jesus was the messiah he would be the Messiah for the Jews and it would have little impact for the gentiles.
Since we are answering questions with questions...
Is he (And Peter)
A. Telling the truth
B. Insane
C. Lying
?
One of the above has to apply. Which do you believe?
Not all...I've been reading and researching things for 18 years. I'm not going to spend 30 minutes finding a facts I heard/read 5 years ago (And verified the validity then) just to post and authors name or whatever it to a person who has no interest in the truth - Your only purpose here is to try and drive Christians from their faith. It's obvious. Why would I "entertain" you then?
If you want to know, you'll look. It's that simple.
I can't drive anyone to do anything. If the dialog generates thought and they find it lacking, well so be it. On the other hand, people like me steel the minds of believers to their faith so look at it this way, God sent me here to strengthen their faith while I'm on y way to hell.
Again, if this forum is only for believers to voice their opinions and discuss the finer things of their faith, backslapping and praise and worship service, kindly show me the door as I was not aware folks in here do not want to be confused by any facts.
So using just one example - when the religous leaders wanted to kill him for claiming he was God, was he...
A. Lying
B. Insane
C. Telling the truth.
Why was "just a regular" guy put to death via crucifixion? Doesn't make sense.
Was Peter also
A. Lying
B. Insane
C. Telling the Truth
2Pe 1:16 We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[fn1]
2Pe 1:18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
So lie or truth?
Jesus never claimed to be God was your #1 reason against what I wrote.
So how do you reconcile:
Jhn 20:28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
I'll just leave that one as it speaks for itself. You can go ahead and use the Bill Clinton arguement that says "is" really doesn't mean "is". But it says what it says.
Any corroborating evidence to go with that? Using the Bible to prove the Bible is, well you know...
Muhammad and Joseph Smith claimed they saw and heard things too.
Mark S. The part in bold. Does it strike you as odd?
No,
First it is written that the things in the Bible were written that we might believe. It is written that if all the things that Jesus did were written in a book, the world would not be able to contain all the books written on him. So there are many things that he said or did, or events surrounding his life that are not reccorded.
The fact that the three writters here wrote such totally different views of the same event. Yet, the facts do not deviate too much. This gives them credibility as being independant writters and yet writting eye witness accounts of the events.
When the cave at the end of the field of the Hittite in Macpeleh was openned. There was no bodies inside. There is three shelve hewed out of the stone and bowls used in the ceremony of washing the dead. These shelves were to hold the bodies of Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Rachel, Jaccob(Israel) and Leah (Rachel was buried under the Oak near Bethlehem). But they are missing! This field is only 9 miles outside of Jerusalem. So I believe that when Christ died on the Cross these people and probably other saints aswell rose from the dead and were seen in the city. If they had to walk into the city, it may have taken some time so the disciples that reccorded it may have remained in the city a while and seen the saints, when the other disciples had left.
Does it not say that Jesus is the first fruits of the dead? So, it means that many other people will rise from the dead. The book of Revelation also speaks of the two witness who are left in the streets after their deaths and after three days the spirit of God entered into them and they rose from the dead. Sounds familiar to Christ, being three days in the tomb, and rising on the third.
No other figure that I'm aware of claimed to be God and Savior of the world to the point of being crucified.
So I take it you think Peter, the author of "1 and 2 Peter" was lying?
Or did all Christians around the world collarborate and defile all 28,000 manuscipts in one accord?
Wait - How do we know ANY BOOK is true! OMG! What if Philo was lying...what if Shakespear was lying! What if George Washington was lying!
OMG - we can't believe ANYTHING without conclusive "in your face" proof!
LOL
I never said Peter was lying, but come to think of it, there is one other possibility. Maybe someone else was lying through him. You know, like putting words in another person's mouth.
First it is written that the things in the Bible were written that we might believe. It is written that if all the things that Jesus did were written in a book, the world would not be able to contain all the books written on him. So there are many things that he said or did, or events surrounding his life that are not reccorded.
The fact that the three writters here wrote such totally different views of the same event. Yet, the facts do not deviate too much. This gives them credibility as being independant writters and yet writting eye witness accounts of the events.
When the cave at the end of the field of the Hittite in Macpeleh was openned. There was no bodies inside. There is three shelve hewed out of the stone and bowls used in the ceremony of washing the dead. These shelves were to hold the bodies of Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Rachel, Jaccob(Israel) and Leah (Rachel was buried under the Oak near Bethlehem). But they are missing! This field is only 9 miles outside of Jerusalem. So I believe that when Christ died on the Cross these people and probably other saints aswell rose from the dead and were seen in the city. If they had to walk into the city, it may have taken some time so the disciples that reccorded it may have remained in the city a while and seen the saints, when the other disciples had left.
Does it not say that Jesus is the first fruits of the dead? So, it means that many other people will rise from the dead. The book of Revelation also speaks of the two witness who are left in the streets after their deaths and after three days the spirit of God entered into them and they rose from the dead. Sounds familiar to Christ, being three days in the tomb, and rising on the third.
Nikk, they did not writer 'totally different views' on this particular story. They wrote the identical story, but the Matthew account adds tat extra bit of information, and an incredulous piece it was. The apologist would say, "well Mark and Luke were not interested in that [insignificant] piece of info." Well that bit of information would have been the most amazing story in human history to that point, wouldn't it? To the most die hard skeptic, 'many' dead people walking about a cosmopolitan city like Jerusalem would have been irrefutable evidence that would have been and should have been the talk of the known world. Fact is, we never hear of them ever again nor do we hear this story from anyone else ANYWHERE!
I can't drive anyone to do anything. If the dialog generates thought and they find it lacking, well so be it. On the other hand, people like me steel the minds of believers to their faith so look at it this way, God sent me here to strengthen their faith while I'm on y way to hell.
Well I agree so some extent that those who are His are His and nothing will change that, I have to disagree about "hey what's the big deal".
Have you never heard of leading someone astray? Happens all the time. Jesus even talked about it in Luke 8:4-8:15 .
"Luk 8:11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved."
By your standards, I suppost teaching your children about "sex" in school is okay even if it's contrary to what they are taught at home. Hey, it's just information. Right?
I would hope that you can at least be honest and admit and agree that "disproving" the Bible is your attempt and goal.
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