Humanity should exterminate the Biblical deity! (disciple, Israel, cross, morals)
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How do you manage to sleep at night in a nation where laws are made by democratically elected officials?
I know that God is in control. He is sovereign and in charge.
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If you crave absolute unquestionable authority based on the threat of harm and punishment, there are places like North Korea and Saudi Arabia where you might feel more comfortable. There are places where morality is absolute and unquestionable, enforced by the threat of torture and death.
So you're going to quit calling God immoral because you have no basis for it now?
Much the same way it works in any other meeting of two or more people in either a relationship or a business contract or meeting of minds. Through ongoing discussion - compromise - democracy - education - debate - and progress of knowledge - in an iterative and ongoing process involving feedback of results into that process.
How else? Certainly much better than your own solution which is essentially the same - what one human says is moral is not another humans opinion - so the former human invents a god for which there is absolutely no evidence what so ever - and then pretends that this god agrees with his position on the moral question at hand - which is of course then static and eternal and has none of the feedback or iterative improvements to reflect requirements that a real world morality does.
But of course every word of that has been explained to you on multiple threads before - by users more articulate and interesting than me - but you continue to find new threads to pop into to act like you have never had it laid out for you anywhere ever before.
So, what it comes down to is simply an opinion of what is good or bad? Murder might be moral on one occasion, but immoral on another simply based on the agreements that the parties involved make.
Yes--it has been communicated on other threads, but no one has ever told me how human beings can universally declare something as moral or immoral. I boils down to opinion, nothing more. Sure, you might have a consensus of opinion....but that's only a group of people agreeing on an assumption of morality.
So, what it comes down to is simply an opinion of what is good or bad?
Not what I said no. Read it again and try again. It is "opinion" but a lot lot more - all of which I listed for you - and all of which you discarded with your little distillation into modification.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Sure, you might have a consensus of opinion....but that's only a group of people agreeing on an assumption of morality.
Yes - and? To borrow from another poster who has explained this to you numerous times before - "morality" is nothing more than the ongoing conversation we have with each other - about how best to live with each other. It is a human construct. So what?
Not having some perfect basis - objective foundation - negates neither its utility nor its importance to us. Nor does it mean inventing a perfect objective foundation for it - a god - which you have not managed to evidence ever - somehow improves things.
It is what it is - and you not being happy with what it is does not magically turn it into something else or something better. Is it perfect or universal - no but no one explaining things to you over and over again has ever A) Claimed it was or B) Claimed it needs to be.
Not what I said no. Read it again and try again. It is "opinion" but a lot lot more - all of which I listed for you - and all of which you discarded with your little distillation into modification.
But, as you say....ultimately it's opinion. Nothing more. You may not like something, but it's only your opinion.
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Yes - and? To borrow from another poster who has explained this to you numerous times before - "morality" is nothing more than the ongoing conversation we have with each other - about how best to live with each other. It is a human construct. So what?
Not having some perfect basis - objective foundation - negates neither its utility nor its importance to us. Nor does it mean inventing a perfect objective foundation for it - a god - which you have not managed to evidence ever - somehow improves things.
It is what it is - and you not being happy with what it is does not magically turn it into something else or something better. Is it perfect or universal - no but no one explaining things to you over and over again has ever A) Claimed it was or B) Claimed it needs to be.
And that's the problem. Without an objective moral standard, you have no basis to declare anything to be immoral. What you may declare to moral, someone else may say is immoral. And your opinion of it is simply that--your opinion. There is no authority in it.
So the entire premise of this thread is really kind of pointless. Humanity has no basis for declaring God to be immoral, and there is no ground for "exterminating the Biblical deity".
But, as you say....ultimately it's opinion. Nothing more.
Nothing more - except the things more I listed for you.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
You may not like something, but it's only your opinion.
Which is where all the other things I listed - which you are distilling out - come into effect.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Without an objective moral standard, you have no basis to declare anything to be immoral.
Without an objective moral standard, you have no basis to declare anything to be objectively immoral. But as I pointed out - people explaining this to you in thread after thread after thread A) never claimed this or B) never claimed you need to. You are doing that.
And also to repeat - your solution is not better - which is that you form a moral world view in the same way we all do - then invent a god and pretend this god agrees and your personal opinion is objective and eternal. All the while evidencing not one single bit of anything you claim. You are essentially doing what we are all doing - exactly what I am claiming morality is - but then elevating it with fantasy. But without this fantasy the basis for your morality differs not a jot from mine.
Actually evidence that this god exists or that this objective moral standard exists - and you might make some headway and say something worth taking seriously.
Been through this before.
There is no absolute morality. Not even the one you have tried to claim which, at one point,IIRC, that you finally did admit it also just your opinion.
That post was one of the highlights of my time here on CD. Viz worked himself into a corner he couldn't "Slickly" wriggle his way out of.
But, as you say....ultimately it's opinion. Nothing more. You may not like something, but it's only your opinion.
And that's the problem. Without an objective moral standard, you have no basis to declare anything to be immoral. What you may declare to moral, someone else may say is immoral. And your opinion of it is simply that--your opinion. There is no authority in it.
That's why there's this thing called government.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
So the entire premise of this thread is really kind of pointless. Humanity has no basis for declaring God to be immoral, and there is no ground for "exterminating the Biblical deity".
Sure there is. Your God committed genocide. He should be doing hard time in a maximum security prison.
Sure there is. Your God committed genocide. He should be doing hard time in a maximum security prison.
If I was your spouse or child I would not sleep a second with you in the same house.
Why should you be trusted?
Or are you not human enough to believe in love, trust and vows?
What a miserable existence.
Last edited by clickstack; 06-30-2015 at 11:22 AM..
Reason: spell
If I was your spouse or child I would not sleep a second with you in the same house.
Why should you be trusted?
Or are you not human enough to believe in love, trust and vows?
What a miserable existence.
If I was your spouse or child I would not sleep a second with you in the same house.
Why should you be trusted?
Or are you not human enough to believe in love, trust and vows?
What a miserable existence.
I think there is more evidence that Freak80 exists than magial big brother of the sky. Thats one reason to trust.
But the idea that you think you don't have those characteristics without said big brother is quite disturbing. Because in my house thats all there is....humans.
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