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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan
Sure. That was the one Richard posted about...
Well I am at present ignorant of that being the case. do you have any evidence from the Hebrew writ which verifies this other kind of slavery? That would be very interesting to see.
Whoa steady on now...first, I cannot say what 'slavery really was' because I wasn't around back then. I don't know what 'the truth' is regarding slavery in relation to the Hebrews.
Well whether there is or not, while some lies are handy, lying about slavery isn't one of those types of lying so go ahead and show me the evidence...
...in the mean time, I hope your wee ranty isn't for the purpose of deflecting away from the other data i gave regarding "love thy slave as thyself" - (yes - it can be regarded that a slave is also a neighbor, wouldn't you agree? Thus a 'slave' should be treated accordingly which is what I understood about the data Richard shared.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
Is NLT a Christian bible? If so, don't you think it is important to make sure they translated correctly. (It seems to me that the children of the Hebrews (Jews) often state that Christians bend the translations to suit their own agenda) Perhaps when Atheists then take Christian translations as 'gospel' they buy into the Christian agenda?
Apart from that, if Hebrews treated their slaves differently than their neighbors, is it any wonder Jesus came along to attempt to correct the behavior.
Do you or don't you think that treating people as equals is a good thing?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotagivan
From your link (and there is plenty more)
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
So you appear to be agreeing with me, that there were two different kinds of slaves that the Jews had, and the one kind being the horrible you can beat to death kind of slave as long as the death happens 3 days after you did the beating. The horrible kind of slavery were you can rape your slave at will with no consequences. The horrible type of slavery where you can buy and sell the human being in the same way you can sell your horse.
Quote:
Is NLT a Christian bible? If so, don't you think it is important to make sure they translated correctly. (It seems to me that the children of the Hebrews (Jews) often state that Christians bend the translations to suit their own agenda) Perhaps when Atheists then take Christian translations as 'gospel' they buy into the Christian agenda?
Version Information
The goal of any Bible translation is to convey the meaning of the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts as accurately as possible to the modern reader. The New Living Translation is based on the most recent scholarship in the theory of translation. The challenge for the translators was to create a text that would make the same impact in the life of modern readers that the original text had for the original readers. In the New Living Translation, this is accomplished by translating entire thoughts (rather than just words) into natural, everyday English. The end result is a translation that is easy to read and understand and that accurately communicates the meaning of the original text.
Quote:
Apart from that, if Hebrews treated their slaves differently than their neighbors, is it any wonder Jesus came along to attempt to correct the behavior.
Do you or don't you think that treating people as equals is a good thing?
Jesus didn't seem to have any problems with people keeping slaves. He never spoke against slavery. In fact, in a parable, he told how slaves who did not know they are doing any wrong should not be beatenas severely as a slave who does. That's hardly a loving endorsement is it?
First, the Jews are not allowed to actively enslave fellow Hebrews. In Exodus time, slavery is well regulated. Comparatively, the Egyptians killed the Jews' children on-sight simply because the Jews got over-populated. While in Jeremiah's time, all slaves should be freed.
Lev 25:35
If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.
So the first measure to be taken in case of a poor fellow Jew is to help him out. Even in the case that the poor Jew decided to sell himself out, do not treat him as a slave.
Lev 25:39-44
39 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves. 40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee.
40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee.*
41 Then they and their children are to be released, and they will go back to their own clans and to the property of their ancestors.*
42*Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves.*
43 Do not rule over them ruthlessly, but fear your God.*
44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.*
In the year of Jubilee, all slaves male or female will be freed.*
As for female slaves. They are free to go as male slaves.
Deut 15:12-15
12 If any of your people—Hebrew men or women—sell themselves to you and serve you six years, in the seventh year you must let them go free. 13 And when you release them, do not send them away empty-handed. 14 Supply them liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to them as the Lord your God has blessed you. 15Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today.
God gave them command to free male and female slaves alike. God reminded them that they should do so because God redeemed them from Egypt.
However, there are technical difficulties when this is implemented in reality. As a result, there are some rules going into the detailed situations.
The first of this is female slaves sold by their fathers. Under most circumstance, they are taken as wives one way or another. That's why they are not freed the same way as male slaves. However, the owners will have to do the following,
The first option is to take them as wives or concubines, they need to treat them equally as the non-slave wives and concubines.
The second option is to take them as wives of their children. The same applies that they should be treated equally as non-slave wives.
The third option is to allow them to be redeemded to other owners will be able to do the above 2 options.
If the owners failed to do the above three, they should allow the female slaves to go free.
Exodus 21:8-118*
8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.*
9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter.*
10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.*
11*If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.
The second problem is that when the owners gave wives to male slaves, say in their sixth years of service. In the seven year the male slaves may go free together with the female slaves who could be new in service. As a result, rule is set that the female slaves will not be freed this way along with the male slave. They are freed by other means, that is, the 3 points listed above with the final resolution that the female slave will finally go free.
As you can see here, the slavery system in Israel is not like other slavery systems around the world at the time of Exodus. The motive is to help the poor out. And in Jeremiah's time, all slaves shall be freed.*
Jeremiah 34:8-9
8 The word came to Jeremiah from the LORD after King Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people in Jerusalem to proclaim freedom for the slaves.*
9*Everyone was to free their Hebrew slaves, both male and female; no one was to hold a fellow Hebrew in bondage.
First, the Jews are not allowed to actively enslave fellow Hebrews. In Exodus time, slavery is well regulated. Comparatively, the Egyptians killed the Jews' children on-sight simply because the Jews got over-populated. While in Jeremiah's time, all slaves should be freed.
Lev 25:35
If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and are unable to support themselves among you, help them as you would a foreigner and stranger, so they can continue to live among you.
So the first measure to be taken in case of a poor fellow Jew is to help him out. Even in the case that the poor Jew decided to sell himself out, do not treat him as a slave.
Lev 25:39-44
39 “‘If any of your fellow Israelites become poor and sell themselves to you, do not make them work as slaves. 40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee.
40 They are to be treated as hired workers or temporary residents among you; they are to work for you until the Year of Jubilee.*
41 Then they and their children are to be released, and they will go back to their own clans and to the property of their ancestors.*
42*Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves.*
43 Do not rule over them ruthlessly, but fear your God.*
44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.*
In the year of Jubilee, all slaves male or female will be freed.*
As for female slaves. They are free to go as male slaves.
Deut 15:12-15
12 If any of your people—Hebrew men or women—sell themselves to you and serve you six years, in the seventh year you must let them go free. 13 And when you release them, do not send them away empty-handed. 14 Supply them liberally from your flock, your threshing floor and your winepress. Give to them as the Lord your God has blessed you. 15Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you. That is why I give you this command today.
God gave them command to free male and female slaves alike. God reminded them that they should do so because God redeemed them from Egypt.
However, there are technical difficulties when this is implemented in reality. As a result, there are some rules going into the detailed situations.
The first of this is female slaves sold by their fathers. Under most circumstance, they are taken as wives one way or another. That's why they are not freed the same way as male slaves. However, the owners will have to do the following,
The first option is to take them as wives or concubines, they need to treat them equally as the non-slave wives and concubines.
The second option is to take them as wives of their children. The same applies that they should be treated equally as non-slave wives.
The third option is to allow them to be redeemded to other owners will be able to do the above 2 options.
If the owners failed to do the above three, they should allow the female slaves to go free.
Exodus 21:8-118*
8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.*
9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter.*
10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.*
11*If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.
The second problem is that when the owners gave wives to male slaves, say in their sixth years of service. In the seven year the male slaves may go free together with the female slaves who could be new in service. As a result, rule is set that the female slaves will not be freed this way along with the male slave. They are freed by other means, that is, the 3 points listed above with the final resolution that the female slave will finally go free.
As you can see here, the slavery system in Israel is not like other slavery systems around the world at the time of Exodus. The motive is to help the poor out. And in Jeremiah's time, all slaves shall be freed.*
Jeremiah 34:8-9
8 The word came to Jeremiah from the LORD after King Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people in Jerusalem to proclaim freedom for the slaves.*
9*Everyone was to free their Hebrew slaves, both male and female; no one was to hold a fellow Hebrew in bondage.
He is getting his information from the Evil Bible.com website...
I asked you "how so" (mainly because you tend to pop into threads and make tiny affirmations which don't really say a lot)
But now you answer with this verse which doesn't seem to clarify.
"That's not condoning slavery..."
"Really? How so Richard."
"Because...."
Because..."Behold, the Lord, our God, has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we saw this day that God speaks with man, yet [man] remains alive."
What?
G()D does not condone slavery BECAUSE "Behold, the Lord, our God, has shown us His glory and His greatness, and we heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we saw this day that God speaks with man, yet [man] remains alive."
???
eta;
oh never mind - I see you have made other posts...
The OP said it was Deut. 5:21 and I looked it up and the above is what Deut. 5:21 says...Nothing about slavery in there, is there?...
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins
You are so clueless, just like the next whiner.
First, the Jews are not allowed to actively ......
.....m freedom for the slaves.*
9*Everyone was to free their Hebrew slaves, both male and female; no one was to hold a fellow Hebrew in bondage.
Bovine Scat!
Your totally ignoring that Jews could own, beat, sell, rape, demean, kill (but only if they due there days or more after a beating) trade and so what ever else one does with property of non- Jews.
Why do so many Christians deny that, even after you read the applicable passages?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
The OP said it was Deut. 5:21 and I looked it up and the above is what Deut. 5:21 says...Nothing about slavery in there, is there?...
Yes, there is. Read it again.
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