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That doesn't change the fact that they are not participants in the ceremony.
And actually, I'm pretty sure even the level of involvement you mention would only be before or after the actual nuptials.
They are there to work. No requirement to toast the couple, eat the cake, congratulate them, say Best Wishes or even smile.
I suppose you would have absolutely zero problem with the government telling you that you had to go photograph a ceremony that was morally offensive to you then, right?
Millions of people would disagree with you. Atheism is a small minority.
Even if the opposite were true, truthy is not based on the number of people that believe it. After all, at one point most people believed the earth was flat--including what the world would consider the educated elite.
If they have no knowledge about their customer's lifestyle then there can't be any moral conflict.
Divorce is permitted in the Bible for infidelity. Are you suggesting that they quiz each customer first?
Are you saying it might be immoral for them to bake a cake for a regular customer because they might know if they are gay or divorced but it would not be immoral to bake a cake for a new customer who might be gay or divorced? Is there anything else in the hetrosexual lifestyle they should be able to discriminate against? Also was the Tennessee hardware store right to put up a no gays sign in his window? And as far as the gays go is it not the sexual act that is the immoral act in your book so should not even selling a gay a donut be immoral as your book is silent on same sex marriage?
I am wondering what other forms of discrimmation you would allow Christian business owners to practice in regards to who they sell to or how they conduct their business? Or is this just a gay discrimination practice? Not selling any product to a homosexual person like the hardware store wants or just things strickly tied to a wedding? And what groups other than gays, if you could put down what other people your religious beleifs would allow discrimination against to show that it is not simply an anti gay thing would be great.
Why should I believe that a liberal progressive state like Oregon would actually believe in common sense?
That's the whole point of this thread--the moonbat court has now slapped down some bakers for daring to speak out against the new protected class.
No, the state fined a business for violating the laws of the state in which they were operating. It had nothing to do with them speaking, it had to do with refusal of service in a public accommodation.
Even if the opposite were true, truthy is not based on the number of people that believe it. After all, at one point most people believed the earth was flat--including what the world would consider the educated elite.
According the book that traces the flat earth history that is not true. I need to re read the book but during Christian period for example up until the 18th or 19th century there were only two academic clerics who beleived that and people from other cultures did not believe it either. It does make for good put downs from either side of the religious argument but just may be completely bogus. In more modern time a British minister promoted the flat earth to combat the science of the day which he viewed as anti Christian. He may have had Buck or Black as part of his name but do not remember fully.
No, the state fined a business for violating the laws of the state in which they were operating. It had nothing to do with them speaking, it had to do with refusal of service in a public accommodation.
Actually...yes---we have shown that the state DID fine them for speaking in a television interview regarding it, and stating that they were going to continue to fight. So yeah....they were fined for daring to speak out.
Oh...now that's a new twist! Marriage equality caused the cake shop owners to decide baking cakes for gays was against their religion. Not the Bible. Not a message from God. Jesus didn't come to them in a vision. Gays get married and....boom! Look out. The gays ask for a cake and the bakers* decided there's a new tenant to their religion.
Fascinating, Jeffy. And amusing. The bakers just found out arbitrarily deciding cake baking was against their religion is going to cost them $135,000. Which is the price they'll pay for thinking they are special snowflakes who didn't have to obey the law.
Yeah. They do.
"It's them! It's the gays. They're uppity and they want us to serve them!!" Yep...just like the lunch counter owners.
And the disgusting thing is you actually have no problem with such an overblown fine for a minor offense laid down by a government official who had a conflict of interest. If that official had been meeting with Christian groups and attending church services where they talked about the case, you would no doubt be up in arms.
We're not talking about denying a gay couple housing or food. We're talking about a luxury product. The owners at the time, given the current state laws, didn't see where it was a big deal. They figured the customers would respect their religious beliefs. Nope, MAKE THEM PAY is the LGBT community's proud mantra apparently. Losing their business wasn't enough.
They failed to comply with a discrimination law which encompasses new standards of society. That's all.
And the disgusting thing is you actually have no problem with such an overblown fine for a minor offense laid down by a government official who had a conflict of interest. If that official had been meeting with Christian groups and attending church services where they talked about the case, you would no doubt be up in arms.
We're not talking about denying a gay couple housing or food. We're talking about a luxury product. The owners at the time, given the current state laws, didn't see where it was a big deal. They figured the customers would respect their religious beliefs. Nope, MAKE THEM PAY is the LGBT community's proud mantra apparently. Losing their business wasn't enough.
They failed to comply with a discrimination law which encompasses new standards of society. That's all.
Yet you have no problem with a government official like Huckabee covering up CRIMES of your christian buddies, the Duggars.
Yet you have no problem with a government official like Huckabee covering up CRIMES of your christian buddies, the Duggars.
Pure hypocrisy.
Whoop! Whoop! Red Herring alert! Whoop! Whoop!
Your post is completely off topic and has no relevancy whatsoever to the post you responded to, and serves no purpose, other than to try to distract anyone reading from the fact that you have no reasonable response.
I suppose you would have absolutely zero problem with the government telling you that you had to go photograph a ceremony that was morally offensive to you then, right?
As a photographer I have had to photographs some things I found offensive to me, one which I thought I might end up throwing up prior to doing the job but I was able to do it, actually it was video taping for several hours. But my employer expected me to do the job. What can be morally offensive that is also legal for me to refuse to photograph? Any ceremony that I can think of that I would not be willing to try to cover would be one that is probably illegal anyways. And it is not that I do not have morals but I know that a photographer is not causing the ceremony to take place but is a witness to it and documents it happening. If a fireman or paramedic was called to a same sex marriage because one of the two getting married needs help would he be able to refuse giving that help becuuse he finds homosexuality immoral? I used to own a store and we followed all the laws that pertained to running the business. I even once had a mail order business that required to to provide two parking spaces for my customers, and it was a mail order business.
And I already posted how a photographer can try to get out of photographing a same sex marriage legally and honestly. Baking a cake should not matter for whom the cake is for, a doubt the person making the oven had any control on the matter either, nor the natural gas company or the farmer whose wheat became the flour or the farmer whose eggs were used or even the miller who ground the wheat into flour.
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