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And one day you will realize that you are the one in error, but unfortunately it will probably be too late. You've been duped by the master of deception into thinking Christians are the enemy and concepts like love and forgiveness are bad things.
When you wake up, you will recieve love and forgiveness from your brothers and sisters in the community. You will find the gay couple sitting next to you in bible study are simply Christians seeking fellowship like you.
You cannot pray the gay away ,Jeff. Gay is not a mental illness. Let go of your frustration and anger. You will come to acceptance and knowing.
Gay is not pedophelia.
Gay is not the enemy.
Gay is not causing natural disasters.
Gay is not causing economic uncertainty in Greece.
Gay is not causing war.
Gay is not causing national security threats.
Love and forgiveness are good things and it is never too late, so open you heart and mind.
We aren't anti-christian, we are anti CHRISTIAN SHARIA LAW and the idea of imposing a NATIONAL RELIGION on the masses who have a perfectly good relationship with Jesus.
Helping and respecting each other have NOTHING to do with christianity--YOU OUGHT TO TRY IT SOME TIME--Helping and respecting I mean.
Remember that the next time you or your loved ones are swimming---
And again, all you fundies can go to church any time you want, read the fantasy bible any time, wear zealot clothing, bumper stickers--hell that last 46 presidents have been "christians" AND several of the major national holidays are based on the CHRISTIAN RELIGION -- Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving -- NO OTHER RELIGION--NONE-- HAVE ANY NATIONAL HOLIDAYS....
So take that religious freedom and wave it in IRAN, or AFGHANISTAN and remember--The rest of the country--which is NOT founded on christianity--have the RIGHT of FREEDOM FROM YOUR INTERPRETATION of religion.
Remind me again exactly how we are trying to pass national religion laws? Let's put things in the proper perspective. It is YOUR side that wants to change and alter what already existed. Marriage laws were created by the state to promote stable family units so children could be raised with the benefits of having a father and mother. SSM can not do that. And homosexuality was illegal when the 14th amendment was created. They didn't even remotely conceive that their law would be warped to protect alternative lifestyles.
The scary thing about the June ruling on SSM is that we now have given non-elected justices the power to apply their own definitions and judgement to the Constitution and change it and there is nothing that the states or voice of the people can do about it.
Remind me again exactly how we are trying to pass national religion laws? Let's put things in the proper perspective. It is YOUR side that wants to change and alter what already existed. Marriage laws were created by the state to promote stable family units so children could be raised with the benefits of having a father and mother. SSM can not do that. And homosexuality was illegal when the 14th amendment was created. They didn't even remotely conceive that their law would be warped to protect alternative lifestyles.
The scary thing about the June ruling on SSM is that we now have given non-elected justices the power to apply their own definitions and judgement to the Constitution and change it and there is nothing that the states or voice of the people can do about it.
attempts and demands to limit and ban Abortion, install religious freedom laws based on christianity while rejecting oither religions, imposing school vouchers to pay for religious eduction with PUBLIC TAX DOLLARS (unless thevouchers are used for MUSLIM SCHOOLS, WICCAN SCHOOLS and SANATIC EDUCATION, then vouchers are null andvoid), birth control limits, attempts and demands for Constitutional amendments to limit LGBT, imploring others to IGNORE the laws, let me think for a minute and I am sure to have a more extensive list..
The justices were elected--by members of CONGRESS who voted to put them onteh bench--and since members of Congress are ELECTED by the people, they REPRESENT the people) The fundies are just ANGRY becasue a few who were confirmed as CONSERATIVES have actually become CONSTITUTIONALLY FOCUSED and vote base on CONSTITUTIONAL LAW and not feelings of RELIGIOUS EXECTATIONS.
How can anyone actuall complain about a ruling that is BASED ON TEH CONSTITUTION that says ALL PEOPLE are entitles to the SAME protections and services?
Perhaps evangelical fundies have a different defination of what SAME means?
Most people know that SAME means--
same
sām/
adjective
1. identical; not different.
"she was saying the same thing over and over"
synonyms: identical, selfsame, very same, one and the same
"we stayed at the same hotel"
2. of an identical type; exactly similar.
"they all wore the same clothes"
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 07-08-2015 at 08:09 AM..
I fail to see the relevance. Ok, so you think they are hypocrites. That doesn't change the fact that the government demanded that they perform an action that they personally felt violated their moral beliefs. You can think those beliefs are messed up, but it is still their personal religious beliefs and the 1st amendment guarantees us that government will not make a law restricting our free exercise of religion. Well it did here and punished them severely.
As a Christian, I would certainly feel uncomfortable if a gay couple asked me to perform a service for their same sex wedding. Especially during a time where it was not even legal in that state. How could I be discriminating against something that didn't even exist at the time? If a divorced person asks for a cake, I don't feel it is my moral obligation to investigate and find out their background. If they told me the cake was to celebrate adultery like a same sex wedding is a celebration and commitment to continue living a sinful lifestyle then I would probably feel the same level of discomfort and not want to bake it.
No the government demanded that they follow the law. If selling wedding cakes to some is against their beliefs, they could have chosen to not offer wedding cakes in their shop.
All the government said is that IF you choose to offer something for sale in your store, then you can not discriminate based on the race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation of those wanting to buy said item.
You can think those beliefs are messed up, but it is still their personal religious beliefs and the 1st amendment guarantees us that government will not make a law restricting our free exercise of religion. Well it did here and punished them severely.
I really don't understand why I have to keep explaining this to you, but our 1st Amendment freedoms are not infinite. The 1st Amendment only guarantees that the government is not going to arrest you or punish you for being a Christian or Catholic or Muslim, etc. It does NOT guarantee that the government is going to allow you to practice every last ritual or allow you to turn every "belief" into "action." Don't you get that?
Some religious beliefs, whether sincerely held or not, are not conducive to a free society and instead promote bigotry, hatred, persecution, and all in all lousy feelings. The U.S. government does its best not to promote any belief that targets specific minority groups or attempts to turn those groups into 2nd Class citizens. And guess what. Your religious hatred of homosexuality -- which isn't even close to a majority view, I might add -- does nothing for freedom in a civil society and instead would only legalize hatred and bigotry, two things our nation has been trying to overcome. We really don't need people like you dragging us down like a ship underway yet whose anchor is still deployed.
The gay couple have freedoms, too, such as the freedom of expression -- and homosexuality is certainly an expression that the government has decided has the right to exist. The 1st Amendment also declared that the government (local, state, and federal) cannot pass a law which establishes a religion, and the Supreme Court ruled a long time ago that "establishing" also means "promoting" and "supporting." Therefore, the government cannot pass a law on behalf of fundamentalist Christianity so they can hate gays and turn them into 2nd Class citizens.
Finally, the 1st Amendment does not give ANYONE the right to do something illegal. The state of Oregon has laws in place that actively prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity. Yes, that means bakers can't give a gay couple the boot simply because they are gay. Now, whether or not that law was in place when those bakers discriminated is another debate.
My point is that the 1st Amendment does not give you or anyone unlimited freedom to practice their religion in any way they see fit. And like it or not, bashing gays and discriminating against them are NOT major doctrines or dogmas of your faith. The government is not going to give you freedom to discriminate just because you've decided to make gays your number one religious pastime. Your religion isn't about hating gays. If it was, then the government MIGHT give you more freedom. But it's not. So the government doesn't give a crap if you have to serve gays because it's NOT and never HAS been a big part of Christianity.
And ... if there are already laws in place to protect gays and transgendered from being discriminated against because of their sexual orientations and gender identities, guess what! The government isn't going to give you an exception to commit a federal crime just because some minor clause in the Bible says lying with the same sex is a sin. Oh, by the way, that baker? He has NO idea if the couple has even had sex. And it's the homosexual ACT that is a sin, not just BEING homosexual. The baker is discriminating against identity, not action ... and it is ACTION that is the sin. You said below that you don't feel its your business to investigate the reasons for a divorce -- so why should the baker "investigate" or just assume that a gay couple has had gay sex? He can't possibly know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If a divorced person asks for a cake, I don't feel it is my moral obligation to investigate and find out their background. If they told me the cake was to celebrate adultery like a same sex wedding is a celebration and commitment to continue living a sinful lifestyle then I would probably feel the same level of discomfort and not want to bake it.
*snort* You would "probably" feel the same level of discomfort. "Probably."
In other words, baking a cake for adulterers doesn't fill your head with rage and anger like gay marriage does otherwise you would be just as vindictive and growly about adultery as you are about homosexuality. There would be no "probably" about it at all.
Thanks for revealing your very specific and surgically targeted bigotry -- which proves almost beyond doubt that your religion is only partly fueling your desire to discriminate against gays. Yep, keep talking because your true colors are starting to show.
No the government demanded that they follow the law. If selling wedding cakes to some is against their beliefs, they could have chosen to not offer wedding cakes in their shop.
All the government said is that IF you choose to offer something for sale in your store, then you can not discriminate based on the race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation of those wanting to buy said item.
And the government violated the 1st amendment rights in their ruling. The government is wrong and the law is wrong.
Great news, over $200,000 raised in support for Sweet Cakes. Even more proof that I am not on a desert island in my beliefs here. Many people out there are against this ruling. 11,000 likes on facebook already.
Quote:
Keep it up. Keep giving. Keep telling their story. And keep exposing as a lie the secular left claim that gay marriage has nothing to do with you and won't hurt you in any way. This whole gay marriage movement isn't even about gays. It's a pretext to attack Christianity and everyone who freely practices it. The Sweet Cakes by Melissa case proves it. And when that sort of thing is happening, it's nice to win a battle. Now let's win the war.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,920,960 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Great news, over $200,000 raised in support for Sweet Cakes. Even more proof that I am not on a desert island in my beliefs here. Many people out there are against this ruling. 11,000 likes on facebook already.
Guess that means that there are quite a few folks out there that do not believe like YOU.
Unfortunately, that is true but if you are a vocal representative for them, you may be in league with the congregation of The Westboro Baptist Church.
That should make your little fundie heart pitter-patter with joy.
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