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Literal means read the context, study the grammar, the text in the original language, etc.
If somoene want sto believe that I'm not going to call them a heretic. But I'm sorry--I just don't see from that text that it indicates they were half-breed demon-humans.
No need to be sorry, Viz.
It's quite obvious believers see what they want in the bible, and ignore what they don't. And they don't always see, or ignore, the same stuff.
Nope and Yes..Why is it always Right or Wrong with some people??
I'm not the one who claims popes are infallible.......popes do that.
Francis needs to be attacking and discrediting prior popes, or he's nothing but a soothsayer.
I'm guessing you haven't read Humanus Genus. Well, to make a long papal bull short, you're going to Hell because you have the audacity to elect your rulers/leaders instead of letting the Church appoint them for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
The bolded underlined has to be interpreted this way if it is to be understood as written:
"There were giants on the earth before the flood and also after the flood when, after the flood the sons of Elohim came unto the daughters of men and got the pregnant."
This would explain how the Sons of God (angels) raped human women all over again after the flood just like they did before the flood. This also begs the un assailable question NO Christian can answer:
Why, in heavens name did God bother to wipe out the human race via the flood in the first place to stop the Nephilim from polluting the seed of man from which Jesus would come if he intended to just allow the Nephilim to pollute the human race all over again after the flood? Or are the Nephilim equal in power to God and God couldn't stop them from impregnating women all over again?
No Christian dares touch this question because it lays bare just how rife with myth and legend this story really is.
Okay.
Great, now I have something new to think about.
You do understand that Classical Biblical Hebrew doesn't use punctuation, so, it's sometimes difficult to discern clauses and parenthetical remarks (and I don't profess to be 100% proficient in CBH).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
If somoene want sto believe that I'm not going to call them a heretic. But I'm sorry--I just don't see from that text that it indicates they were half-breed demon-humans.
Again, it depends on how you determine the root. The KJV --- which apparently is not your favorite --- takes the root to be nepal, which implies some sort of monstrosity. I'm not certain, but I was inclined to believe that the Septuagint rendered it so, which is why I referenced Ptolemy, who uses the same verb to describe monstrous (deformed) births in his text on astronomy/astrology.
If you accept the root to be nepil, then there's still some confusion as to the type of verb, which makes a difference translating it as "those who are fallen" (or who fell) versus "those who were cast out."
Again, it depends on how you determine the root. The KJV --- which apparently is not your favorite --- takes the root to be nepal, which implies some sort of monstrosity. I'm not certain, but I was inclined to believe that the Septuagint rendered it so, which is why I referenced Ptolemy, who uses the same verb to describe monstrous (deformed) births in his text on astronomy/astrology.
If you accept the root to be nepil, then there's still some confusion as to the type of verb, which makes a difference translating it as "those who are fallen" (or who fell) versus "those who were cast out."
You're entitled to your opinion. I will not call anyone a heretic for their understanding of this text in that way. The Christian faith is not based on the identity of the Nephilim.
Angels do not procreate. The giants were men who once walked with God, hence given the name Son's of God but became fallen from the Grace and took as many wife's as they wanted, contrary to God's original plan for them and so became part of the problem [another was violence by all, not just the giants] in polluting the world with sin. Even after the flood there were some giant men because the gene pool carried over but that does not make a giant person any more prone to sin then the rest. God simply likes variety and it is each type of people's responsibility to serve the Truth rather then selfless gain. One can not say that God made a mistake seeing that Grace has been always available.
Enoch walked with God and was taken by God to a far better place and in so doing left the witness that Grace has always been available.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
You're entitled to your opinion. I will not call anyone a heretic for their understanding of this text in that way. The Christian faith is not based on the identity of the Nephilim.
BUT the book you base your faith on makes sure that Nephilim are included... twice. Obviously it was relevant to the story at the time, so now it is to be disregarded?
Why?
It is not part of the Law that supposedly Jesus fulfilled. Therefore, it was not cancelled or to be ignored. After all, your not ignoring a ton of stuff in Genesis otherwise. Apparently that other stuff is important and you base your faith on it, but all of a sudden, here comes an unexplained and difficult part, and oooops, the narrative becomes, "That part of the bible is not important, so let's pick, and choose, and ignore it".
Come to think of it, that IS very Christian of you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123
Angels do not procreate. The giants were men who once walked with God, hence given the name Son's of God but became fallen from the Grace and took as many wife's as they wanted, contrary to God's original plan for them and so became part of the problem [another was violence by all, not just the giants] in polluting the world with sin. Even after the flood there were some giant men because the gene pool carried over but that does not make a giant person any more prone to sin then the rest. God simply likes variety and it is each type of people's responsibility to serve the Truth rather then selfless gain. One can not say that God made a mistake seeing that Grace has been always available.
Enoch walked with God and was taken by God to a far better place and in so doing left the witness that Grace has always been available.
WHAT evidence is that there was a giant gene in Noah's family, or this is just wonderful speculation to answer a problem that can't be answered?
The bible is one confused piece of literature, isn't it?
Consider the Nephlim.
Who are they? Giants. Or, maybe not. God's sons (you see, Jesus was NOT his only begotten one) came down to earth, had an orgy with the nymphs, ooops, women, who lived here, and presto pop, out came the Nephlim. That is what the bible says, although I know that we are going to see "you be taking it out of context, boy" comments quickly. Or, "those were angels, not literal sons". Or some other excuse.
The bible says what the bible says, but I know apologists are going to get into spins that the words do not mean what they say. Unless they, do, and then we hear about Leviticus ad infinitum.
So that is the genesis of Nephlim before the Flood.
Then El gets all pizzy about everything down on earth (what the heck did those cute Koala Bears do so that all except two died?) and shazam! da Flood. Da Deluge. Da 40 days and 40 nights of rain, rain, rain.
The waters recede (where to?) and out pops the animals 2 x2, and some 7x7. And eight people, equally male and female. And away they go, copulating like bunnies, to repopulate the earth.
But WAIT! There's more!
Noah had some stowaways! What other explanation is there, as poof!, the Nephlim all of a sudden pop into the story again, AFTER the Flood. No heavenly orgies this time, they just are. Moses scouts come back and tell him about these people, and that they can't be defeated, as they are stronger and sooooo big. Did these after Flood Nephlim have the gawd gene in them also?
Remember the son's of El who came down and had that orgy BF (Before Flood)? The offspring must of had part of the gawd gene in them, right? What about those AF (After Flood)?
So, apologists, have at 'er. I'm sure CARM or Answers in Genesis have a copy and past ready for you. Try and avoid those and be original, please?
References:
Genesis 6:1-4 (just before El gets all pizzy and starts opening the taps)
Numbers 13:31-33
Well, if you read Josephus, he quotes History books of the Barbarians stating that there were survivors of the flood on top of a mountain in Armenia and these folks recorded or orally passed down that a big boat with eight people on it landed on top of this mountain in Armenia...So, what does this tell us?...Couple this with the scientific fact that the area around the Black Sea and the Bosporus experienced a rather substantial flood to the point where there lies underneath the waters several cities and towns indicating where the original coast line existed before this local flood...Even the Mediterranean was lacking water and was just a mass of little ponds of sea water until after the polar caps melted and the Mediterranean filled back up and went flooding over the Bosporus and filled the Black Sea to the point where, deep down, the water is fresh and the top is salt water...
So, I say it was local to the ME and not global...
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