Returning to church as an agnostic (salvation, hell, churches, atheist)
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So I left church and Christianity behind a few years ago when I started digging into the details of life and figuring out MY way of seeing things. I had spent my whole life doing things the way I was told and believing what I was told.
At this point, after years of self study, reflection, and a full absence from any church or affiliation with any religious activities, I am considering going back to church. Here is why.
- I was born and raised in a system that was good, decent, and taught hard work, honesty, and treating others kindly. Yes I know there are caveats to that and churches can pick on some things and while completely ignoring other major issues in their own building or congregation. That was part of why I left, but as I have sampled other ways of living, I now see that as a prevalent human nature. Everyone is biased, period. I've seen it in atheism, agnosticism, other religions, secularism, etc. Its a fundamental flaw of humans and I'm no longer butt hurt over the religion I grew up with being human.
- I have no tribe. No matter how "global citizen" the corporate and government messaging becomes in trying to convince us we are all supposed to be part of a global citizenship, I call BS. I tried to buy into the idea, tried to live it, and then realized that it was totally unnatural. If you fit in everywhere, you are essentially nobody. I identify with the lifestyle of Christians more so than any other group that I could be a part of. In essence, they are my tribe by birth, even if I don't fundamentally believe the details of it all.
- My wife deserves better. I have been married for almost 11 years now. My wife was born and raised in Christianity. We have taken this path together and she left church and shared a lot of the same concerns about it that I did. She was fine with leaving church at the time, but as the years go on, the things we have replaced it with have felt empty in comparison. She has a similar position as me now. Not a die hard believer, probably never will be. But she has missed the sense of shared community and hope that church can bring. The other options we have replaced church with have failed to provide that for either of us. I think my wife has suffered from this more than I have, and I want her to have that again. I want don't want to die early (I'm 40 now), but if I do, I don't want to take my last breath knowing I left my wife wandering the world without the sense of home and community that we enjoyed in church.
- I'd rather believe something than nothing. I don't believe in streets of gold because I don't think we will give a crap about materialistic things when we are dead even if there is an afterlife. I don't believe in floaty angels and singing for eternity. We might just die and be dead. That's fine and I'm not afraid of that fate. I don't know if there is a god or not, but most of the basic tenets of Christianity are things I agree with and care about. It is more about going to follow it as a philosophy than seeking the divine. A place of people from the community recentering each week on shared values and struggles.
- I'm over the religion haters. Religion may be responsible for a lot of horrific things. But you know what else is? Most large, organized things that humans put together. Like corporations. Or government. Or activist groups. I don't want to go to a church that practices anything I consider hurtful or wrong and I have the ability to decide if a congregation is acting in a way that I am comfortable with.
With all that said, what I am wondering is if anyone has been through this at some level or another and ended up back in church even though you don't fundamentally believe the same way you did before? If so, how did the experience play out? Was it easy, hard, or just awkward at first? Did you stick with it?
I am not planning to get all holy roller or anything. I just want to be part of a group in my community that has shared values that I can identify with and a place where I can get a little help and give a little help when its needed.
Thank you! We do sometimes get irreligious theists. We don't often get religious non -theists.
I am reminded of the de Botton initiative. It was suggested that we might benefit by using the benefits of religion without the trappings. That of course depends what the trappings and benefits are taken to be.
Do you know, I think that, not only would you be welcome at a UU church (as an agnostic) but at an atheist meeting and discussion as we would appreciate the input of someone who values religion for the benefits it brings while not actually buying into Godfaith, There are quite a lot of atheists who are prepared to accept that organized religion is good for us, whether it is true or not. I used to be one of them.
Back in the 70's, I was a Sunday school teacher. I also visited other churches as well as time allowed. I became so very disenchanted with the teachings of eternal torment, free-will salvation (you have to save yourself since Christ didn't do enough to save a flea), and other teachings that I made my exodus out of church. I told God I would still believe in Him and believe Christ died for our sins but I was through with church.
A week later after leaving, a friend needed help with his roof which was leaking due to a hail storm. He had a flat roof on his home. So I helped. As we were taking a break he said: "I believe God is in control of everything" or something to that effect. Right after he said that I turned around and looked at all the water damage in his home, turned back around and looked at him and figured "this guy must really believe that!" So I am going to listen to what he has to say. He explained to me about God's sovereignty and what Christ really accomplished for ALL mankind. He showed me some literature from Concordant Publishing which I took home when we were done.
Since that time I have spoken at Bible conferences around the world and pastored a church which believes in God saving all. I visit other churches just to play guitar but don't join their "church" since I believe all believers are in the body of Christ.
One caveat emptor for you: Mostly believe the opposite of what most ministers tell you. If they teach on free will, believe in God's sovereignty. If they tell you most are going to some sort of eternal hell, believe God will save all ( 1 Tim.2:4-6 and many other passages). If they teach the Trinity, believe there is only one God, the Father, out of Whom all is and one Lord, Jesus Christ through Whom all is. If they tell you you have to tithe, give out of love and not out of coercion. If they tell you you have to do this and that and this and that and this and that to be saved, believe Christ already died for our sins and that believing, you are righteous, you are justified, you are saved, you are sealed with the spirit of promise for the day of deliverance. If they tell you you can't drink, smoke or chew or run with boys who do, remember Christ ate and drank with such. Just use moderation in all things. Don't do things that stumble a weaker brother or sister.
So I left church and Christianity behind a few years ago when I started digging into the details of life and figuring out MY way of seeing things. I had spent my whole life doing things the way I was told and believing what I was told.
At this point, after years of self study, reflection, and a full absence from any church or affiliation with any religious activities, I am considering going back to church. Here is why.
- I was born and raised in a system that was good, decent, and taught hard work, honesty, and treating others kindly. Yes I know there are caveats to that and churches can pick on some things and while completely ignoring other major issues in their own building or congregation. That was part of why I left, but as I have sampled other ways of living, I now see that as a prevalent human nature. Everyone is biased, period. I've seen it in atheism, agnosticism, other religions, secularism, etc. Its a fundamental flaw of humans and I'm no longer butt hurt over the religion I grew up with being human.
- I have no tribe. No matter how "global citizen" the corporate and government messaging becomes in trying to convince us we are all supposed to be part of a global citizenship, I call BS. I tried to buy into the idea, tried to live it, and then realized that it was totally unnatural. If you fit in everywhere, you are essentially nobody. I identify with the lifestyle of Christians more so than any other group that I could be a part of. In essence, they are my tribe by birth, even if I don't fundamentally believe the details of it all.
- My wife deserves better. I have been married for almost 11 years now. My wife was born and raised in Christianity. We have taken this path together and she left church and shared a lot of the same concerns about it that I did. She was fine with leaving church at the time, but as the years go on, the things we have replaced it with have felt empty in comparison. She has a similar position as me now. Not a die hard believer, probably never will be. But she has missed the sense of shared community and hope that church can bring. The other options we have replaced church with have failed to provide that for either of us. I think my wife has suffered from this more than I have, and I want her to have that again. I want don't want to die early (I'm 40 now), but if I do, I don't want to take my last breath knowing I left my wife wandering the world without the sense of home and community that we enjoyed in church.
- I'd rather believe something than nothing. I don't believe in streets of gold because I don't think we will give a crap about materialistic things when we are dead even if there is an afterlife. I don't believe in floaty angels and singing for eternity. We might just die and be dead. That's fine and I'm not afraid of that fate. I don't know if there is a god or not, but most of the basic tenets of Christianity are things I agree with and care about. It is more about going to follow it as a philosophy than seeking the divine. A place of people from the community recentering each week on shared values and struggles.
- I'm over the religion haters. Religion may be responsible for a lot of horrific things. But you know what else is? Most large, organized things that humans put together. Like corporations. Or government. Or activist groups. I don't want to go to a church that practices anything I consider hurtful or wrong and I have the ability to decide if a congregation is acting in a way that I am comfortable with.
With all that said, what I am wondering is if anyone has been through this at some level or another and ended up back in church even though you don't fundamentally believe the same way you did before? If so, how did the experience play out? Was it easy, hard, or just awkward at first? Did you stick with it?
I am not planning to get all holy roller or anything. I just want to be part of a group in my community that has shared values that I can identify with and a place where I can get a little help and give a little help when its needed.
I think it's a great idea in theory. I tried to continue going to church for my husband's sake since he is still a Christian, but our circumstances are rather unique and for various reasons it wasn't comfortable at all. I'm not a religion hater, and I do think that there are probably church bodies that might be a good fit for you. You just need to do a little research.
The UU seems to me to be based on a politically liberal ideaology, so if that's your cup of tea, it could work. More mainline churches to consider might be Episcopal, Methodist, and ELCA. I'd be willing to bet that many of those churches have a fair number of members much like yourselves. Or maybe, instead of a church, getting involved in some sort of a charitable organization could serve your purpose equally well? Just a thought.
Universal Unitarians do not care, they welcome everyone. you will likely even find like minded folks there.
I attended a Methodist church a couple years ago. When I travel, I like to check out old architecture, and this one dated back to the 1800s.
At the beginning they said "We want to welcome all here today, both believers and non believers"
OP, if my wife and I were more social we would probably consider something like this but it just isn't for us. To me the fact that everyone is biased argues against, rather than for, picking a bias and either sticking with it or making a pretense of doing so. But to each their own. No one can control your personal thoughts and beliefs whether or not you join a particular group. I certainly understand the desire for a sense of community and an environment conducive to meeting people and building relationships and common cause.
I was reading an interesting article the other day about the Elks lodge and its resurgence in a more relevant 21st century format and how it provides that sense of community in a somewhat different way from how churches do. But to join even what is essentially a secular organization, I would have to affirm, falsely in my case, that I "believe in a higher power".* Of course no one in that environment would pin me down about what exactly that belief was, but I would still feel fraudulent in claiming it.
I have gotten used to concealing my distaste for some of the customs and traditions people become attached to but I just can't take it as far as outright lying about my actual beliefs.
* The other required affirmation is that you've never tried to overthrow the US government, which is a silly affirmation that 99.9999% of people would make anyway. Apparently it is watered down from a more specific affirmation they used to have, that you are not a member of the Communist Party.
So I left church and Christianity behind a few years ago when I started digging into the details of life and figuring out MY way of seeing things. I had spent my whole life doing things the way I was told and believing what I was told.
At this point, after years of self study, reflection, and a full absence from any church or affiliation with any religious activities, I am considering going back to church. Here is why.
- I was born and raised in a system that was good, decent, and taught hard work, honesty, and treating others kindly. Yes I know there are caveats to that and churches can pick on some things and while completely ignoring other major issues in their own building or congregation. That was part of why I left, but as I have sampled other ways of living, I now see that as a prevalent human nature. Everyone is biased, period. I've seen it in atheism, agnosticism, other religions, secularism, etc. Its a fundamental flaw of humans and I'm no longer butt hurt over the religion I grew up with being human.
- I have no tribe. No matter how "global citizen" the corporate and government messaging becomes in trying to convince us we are all supposed to be part of a global citizenship, I call BS. I tried to buy into the idea, tried to live it, and then realized that it was totally unnatural. If you fit in everywhere, you are essentially nobody. I identify with the lifestyle of Christians more so than any other group that I could be a part of. In essence, they are my tribe by birth, even if I don't fundamentally believe the details of it all.
- My wife deserves better. I have been married for almost 11 years now. My wife was born and raised in Christianity. We have taken this path together and she left church and shared a lot of the same concerns about it that I did. She was fine with leaving church at the time, but as the years go on, the things we have replaced it with have felt empty in comparison. She has a similar position as me now. Not a die hard believer, probably never will be. But she has missed the sense of shared community and hope that church can bring. The other options we have replaced church with have failed to provide that for either of us. I think my wife has suffered from this more than I have, and I want her to have that again. I want don't want to die early (I'm 40 now), but if I do, I don't want to take my last breath knowing I left my wife wandering the world without the sense of home and community that we enjoyed in church.
- I'd rather believe something than nothing. I don't believe in streets of gold because I don't think we will give a crap about materialistic things when we are dead even if there is an afterlife. I don't believe in floaty angels and singing for eternity. We might just die and be dead. That's fine and I'm not afraid of that fate. I don't know if there is a god or not, but most of the basic tenets of Christianity are things I agree with and care about. It is more about going to follow it as a philosophy than seeking the divine. A place of people from the community recentering each week on shared values and struggles.
- I'm over the religion haters. Religion may be responsible for a lot of horrific things. But you know what else is? Most large, organized things that humans put together. Like corporations. Or government. Or activist groups. I don't want to go to a church that practices anything I consider hurtful or wrong and I have the ability to decide if a congregation is acting in a way that I am comfortable with.
With all that said, what I am wondering is if anyone has been through this at some level or another and ended up back in church even though you don't fundamentally believe the same way you did before? If so, how did the experience play out? Was it easy, hard, or just awkward at first? Did you stick with it?
I am not planning to get all holy roller or anything. I just want to be part of a group in my community that has shared values that I can identify with and a place where I can get a little help and give a little help when its needed.
Standard approach - out of Christianify and straight into Atheism. Why?
Not that I am stopping you but what if that feeling of emptiness won't go away when you rerun to Church?
Did you miss the part where he said YEARS of self-study and reflection. And he didn't label himself an atheist, did he? He said he "doesn't know".
This is exactly what it is.
Years of pondering moved him back into the realms of a believer. He may have felt that the universe and everything in it, could have not come together by chance - so there is something out there. And if that something is God then why look for it ONLY in the church?
Any my question was, what if he can't find it in the church as it was in the first place? Will he go back to Atheism? Just a question.
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Thank you! We do sometimes get irreligious theists. We don't often get religious non -theists. 
