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However, many times more people are leaving religion than adopting religion, at least in the developed world.
85% of scientists are atheist. That is very telling. Why do you think that is?
You are wrong.
Religion is growing most in areas of top development and education. It outstrips the losses by many multiples.
Most people are not scientists...and the Big Bang was figured out by a Priest.
I went there precisely because it was necessary to go there , as your argument was based on the mindset and reactions of people today who have pre existing religions to influence them and affect their understanding .
Well, uh, yes - that's why I was expecting it. It was the only logical direction for the discussion to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash
We obviously cannot know for sure as the situation can never actually exist , but my point is an exploration on what people think such a religion would be based upon given that we don't need to assign natural phenomena to invisible gods anymore . That science would return is obvious and has not been questioned . But on what would a completely new and original belief in invisible supernatural beings be based upon in a modern scientific society ?
Probably the same illogical misconceptions upon which it was based in the first place, and to which humans of all generations are still prone.
Look at some of the crazy things that people even today are finding to believe - humans never landed on the moon, you can't see the sun from space, the earth is flat, aliens are running the governments of every country in the world, chemtrails, there's an RFID chip in your driver's license that the government is using to control your thoughts... all of these things have no rational basis at all, and are easily disproven, but numerous people believe them anyway.
You don't have to have been born 3000 years ago to dream up really bizarre things to believe in, and the only "basis" that's needed is that someone is sitting on a beach somewhere and it just pops into their head. If you put a billion typewriters in front of a billion monkeys, eventually one of them is probably going to randomly type out the complete works of Shakespeare. You put 7 or 8 billion people on a planet, it's inevitable that some of them are going to say, "nah, that's all bull****, there's a god who's behind all this." Presto, there's your "completely new and original belief in invisible supernatural beings."
...Please remove the chip from your shoulder and simply address the OP as stated and not based on what you want to believe you think I intend . The point of the OP is very obvious and without subterfuge , even though it may not speak well of religions in general .
the underlying premise of the opening post is also clear, and on a public forum when a post has glaring flaws they are going to get pointed out:
religion is ____ (inaccurate description)
people who are religious are _____ (simplistic, inaccurate)
science is a replacement for religion (flawed logic)
i am very much enjoying the other posts too, from Albert, BigCity, Golden, and Arach, as they bring to light facets i had not considered.
the opening post asked a question, and we are giving our thoughtful considered responses. you seem uncomfortable with hearing differing views. so why bother asking the question?
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-26-2016 at 02:01 PM..
the underlying premise of the opening post is also clear, and on a public forum when a post has glaring flaws they are going to get pointed out:
religion is ____ (your inaccurate definition)
people who are religious are _____ (your inaccurate definition)
science is a replacement for religion (flawed premise)
i am very much enjoying the other posts too, from Albert, BigCity, Golden, and Arach, as they bring to light facets i had not considered.
the opening post asked a question, and we are giving our thoughtful considered responses. you seem uncomfortable with hearing differing views. so why bother asking the question?
I don't mind hearing any responses that address the OP . You , however, seem to carry a personal grudge from past threads and from the start have been attempting to make this about me wanting to denigrate religion, instead of simply addressing the OP.
If you have something to contribute regarding the OP , please do so. Your responses on that will be much welcomed , as Alberts was . That point again, in case you have forgotten, is about how religion would be created in the modern scientific age if erased from memory somehow .
Last edited by wallflash; 06-26-2016 at 02:15 PM..
.... how religion would be created in the modern scientific age if erased from memory somehow .
since we come from the Divine, and are attached to the Divine, we will always be in relationship with the Divine. it has nothing to do with science, or memory.
since we come from the Divine, and are attached to the Divine, we will always be in relationship with the Divine.
How would you go about proving to those you wanted to gather to your new religion that there was a Divine at all, and that we should seek a relationship with this Divine, and possibly , depending upon the requirements, if any, of your new religion, let this Divine have control and influence over our lives ?
In short , how would you convince a modern scientific people with no previous conception of religion or supernatural beings to accept your new ideas that there is an invisible supernatural being that we should follow, worship , and allow to have influence in our lives ?
How would you go about proving to those you wanted to gather to your new religion that there was a Divine at all, and that we should seek a relationship with this Divine, and possibly , depending upon the requirements, if any, of your new religion, let this Divine have control and influence over our lives ?
In short , how would you convince a modern scientific people with no previous conception of religion or supernatural beings to accept your new ideas that there is an invisible supernatural being that we should follow, worship , and allow to have influence in our lives ?
since that is not the purpose of religion, there is no need to do any of those things or convince anyone of anything.
since that is not the purpose of religion, there is no need to do any of those things or convince anyone of anything.
How is it flawed ? The question is how religion could be reestablished if forgotten. Phrase it how you will, but on what basis does a modern scientific society become convinced of an invisible supernatural being that one should worship, follow, and devote ones life to ?
How is it flawed ? The question is how religion could be reestablished if forgotten. Phrase it how you will, but on what basis does a modern scientific society become convinced of an invisible supernatural being that one should worship, follow, and devote ones life to ?
1. no one convinces anyone of anything. flawed premise
2. since we are connected to the Divine, people become aware of this through personal experience, trial and error, asking questions, paying close attention to thoughts, feelings, beliefs, and daily life; seeking to find solutions and work through difficulties; and comparing notes with each other.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-26-2016 at 03:04 PM..
So what would this be based on if a scientific understanding of nature prevented attributing the early causes of religion to invisible gods ? How do entire societies develop with no belief in the supernatural if somehow this is intrinsic to the human mind ?
There is no evidence in any society of a religion that developed solely to improve the human spirit that didn't develop first from the concept of invisible gods that affect nature around us .
if religion means no inviso-omni-dude, then I would think no religion too.
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