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I think there are an awful lot of people who are obsessed with other people's sex lives.
Also homosexuality and incest are completely unrelated.
They are unrelated, but it seems the popular thing to try to draw parallels for deviancy (depending upon one's definition) and homosexuality as proof of...something. God knows what. But IMO that goes to show that some people to this day think of gayness as sickness and deviancy. Very sad.
I disagree and generally I see the "Oh yeah...well, if we accept homosexuality then we have to accept frimge totally gross practice X" fall flat on its face, pretty much every time.
Nevertheless I was sad to see homosexuality make its appearance very early in this thread. Give it a rest, people. There just isn't a parallel...period. There will always be generally permanent power, heiraechy and other dynamics in incest, including once both parties are "grown up," that simply aren't a similar hallmark in (non-incestuous) homosexuality. Period. And yes, that changes everything.
And for those who think close in age siblings can't be coercive, bullying, in a power position, or even commit rape against the similar age, non dominant sib, think again. The older or favored or simply personality dominant sibling has been dominating the other(s) nearly from birth. None of you had an older sibling you thought was basically God, for whom you would do anything? Or maybe someone just a grade or two up from you? Maybe out of desperation to be accepted? Maybe out of fear? Maybe out of awe?
My older sister was only 21 months my senior. I think I would have walked off a bridge for her. It was a third love, a third awe, a third stark terror...well, give or take on those percentages. I took the fall for her for things she did on her promise to be my friend or to not beat me up herself, or else a promise not to turn my parents against and beat or severely punish me as, being the favorite, she fully knew she had that power (and when I really tried to stand my ground, she used that power). I ate bugs for her and her friends' amusement. I made a coupon booklet of nice things to do for her; she waited until we had a sleepover with a friend to use them, one after another, so that I missed out on the popcorn, the movie and the giggles. I came crawling back anyway. She told me she would walk me to school and ran before a car came, leaving me stranded and frightened to cross by myself. But if I promised to do whatever for her then she would help me not get hit by a car next time (always threats followed by promises). My parents never believed me, told me to just "work things out" with my sister and left me to her clutches from the age of seven when my mother divorced, worked, and had my sister and me stay home together with no babysitter after school until 6 or 7 each night. Even when I became physically big enough to fight her back she was more vicious. I did what that girl said, trust me. Oh did I.
Don't be fooled that if something horrific happens such as incest, both kids felt they had a choice and both were willing. I'd go so far as to say it is likely in a lot of such cases that the sib sick enough to want to do his sister or brother already had a mental and possibly also physical stranglehold that had existed since they were toddlers.
But anyone who directly knows (I'm not talking about some fantasy incest forum where people make up wishful thinking tales about their preschool age sons) even one story of a direct incest situation that began when both were adults, OR one of children who were both totally and willingly into it, and it was a beautiful and non-coercive, healthy thing, please do speak up. I've never heard of a single one. But perhaps you have.
I think there are an awful lot of people who are obsessed with other people's sex lives.
Also homosexuality and incest are completely unrelated.
They are unrelated genetically, yes. I believe the "parallel" was drawn by the poster on the 1st page not because of some inherent genetic relationship between incest and homosexuality, but because a popular "argument" in favor of normative homosexuality (and by extension - marriage) has taken the form of "if 2 consenting adults love each other and are not hurting anyone, then who are you to deny them the same rights as others who love each other". That same argument, as the poster on page 1 hinted at, could easily be used for acceptance of normative incest. If consensual "Love" trumps social taboo, then there is no reason to not use such an argument (it has been proven to work rather well). That is the parallel that was made, and to be assumed. It could have been worded that way to avoid confusion.
The slippery slope is dangerous, but is not inadmissible. It can (and should, in my opinion) open up new avenues of thought, or we run the risk of hypocrisy and discrimination - or it should at least give us a better insight into our current argument and its legitimacy and consequences.
(P.S. - the genetic dangers of inbreeding have been vastly overblown, if various scientific studies are to be believed. They happen, but not as often as our social norms would convince us they do.)
I think that people who are uncomfortable about the thought of two men have sex together are more likely to bring up other uncomfortable feeling types like sex such as bestiality or incest to the discussion about homosexuality. Homosexuality like heterosexually are both cases of two people having a common attraction for each other or of a person of the sex that they are attracted to. Bestiality involved animals that cannot give consent as does having sex with a minor.
In the case of families there is usually a family dynamic whereas parents are above the children in majority of cases and often an older sibling is responsible for younger children. So does incest between two siblings or a parent and child involve pure consent? I do not know. Does one sibling have sex with a parent put them in a position of power over their other siblings?
I find it not difficult to argue homosexuality is acceptable but incest is wrong as they are two totally different things. Two brothers or a son and father would be both homosexual and incestral in nature. There is no familial power dynamics with two adult males but with two siblings there most likely is. And the nature of offspring between a daughter and father may be of concern as well. Two siblings who grew up apart and did not know each other and met and attracted to each other may not have the family dynamics that could impair consent btw two adults.
I think it is just as correct that if you say that if you accept same sex marriage then incest must also be accepted that you must also accept that if homosexuality is not acceptable than interracial marriages are not either. Both are cases of putting two separate acts or thoughts as being identical in value or rightfulness.
Don't think I expressed myself well, but I stand on homosexuality is acceptable, bestially is not acceptable and incest probably not but I certainly no expert or even knowledgeable enough in the topic to be able to make that judgement. Are there good reasons to accept or reject incest? That I do not know for certainty.
idr591 it is sort like saying that if you let a dog into your house to sleep you must accept cows in there as well.
homosexuality and incest arent even in the same ball field.
in·cest
ˈinˌsest/Submit
noun
sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other.
the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.
Unless i completely misunderstand my mother in law ( who is homosexual) she isnt dating her cousin or has children with her uncle.
We frequently make the point that if two consenting adults are in a sexual relationship, it is no one's business except the two concerned. Should this be carried over to incest?
Yes it should. Incest between consenting adults is their business, not ours, and I see nothing morally wrong with it. I think it INADVISABLE for a few reasons, but not morally wrong. And as you can see from responses like this one....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
If you think incest is fine, or can't see why it is NOT FINE....then you have a serious need for professional help
.... those who are against it are of the "It is wrong, because it just is" ilk. What you do not see behind their veil of insults is any coherent arguments against it. Just the "If you do not see it my way, you are sick" mentality displayed above.
Two things however muddy the water on having a rational discourse on the topic of incest.
The first is that the term "incest" is a catch all term for many different kinds of behaviour. Including the raping of children by parents. It should be clear that those who do not see a moral issue with incest.... tend to be speaking specifically about consenting adults.
The second is that other behaviours we would consider immoral are brought up as if they are synonymous with incest. YES we agree that using a position of power over a period of time to groom another human being for sex is immoral. But that is not synonymous with incest. There are incestuous relationships that fit that description, and there are non-incestuous relationships that fit that description. They are both bad...... but so too is indicting incest with the crimes of people within it. The two are separate issues.
Assuming we are speaking of consenting adults engaging in activities of their own free will..... I think Tzaphkiel demonstrates how many arguments are actually out there on offer against the morality of incest. That is to say.... none.
I'm opening up this thread to carry on the discussion on a topic Jeffbase40 brought up, and one that is worthy of discussion.
As thought starters, it may be worthwhile to read the following articles. We frequently make the point that if two consenting adults are in a sexual relationship, it is no one's business except the two concerned. Should this be carried over to incest?
For starters, sex between unmarried people is fornication, that's sin.
Having said that, Leviticus 18 does forbid it. For a New Testament reference, the apostle Paul chastised the Corinthian church for turning a blind eye to a man who was having an affair with his step-mother, calling it a grievous thing that EVEN the pagans didn't do. (1 Cor 5:1)
in·cest
ˈinˌsest/Submit
noun
sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other.
the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.
Unless i completely misunderstand my mother in law ( who is homosexual) she isnt dating her cousin or has children with her uncle.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,922,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
For starters, sex between unmarried people is fornication, that's sin.
Having said that, Leviticus 18 does forbid it. For a New Testament reference, the apostle Paul chastised the Corinthian church for turning a blind eye to a man who was having an affair with his step-mother, calling it a grievous thing that EVEN the pagans didn't do. (1 Cor 5:1)
Oh well, then I am a frequent fornicator. And have been for years. Blissfully and sinfully so. 'Tis a joy I tell you! Some sin is a good thing.
Oh well, then I am a frequent fornicator. And have been for years. Blissfully and sinfully so. 'Tis a joy I tell you! Some sin is a good thing.
Yes--sin is fun, for a time.
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