Why would God expect us to believe without evidence? (souls, hell, quote)

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by 303Guy

No doubt you have proof of this? Like a high altitude photograph. A perfectly level ocean horizon. Something?

Just a quick question - why does the sun not light up the whole earth simultaneously instead of a night/day line that progresses across the plane of the earth?

Actually, I find it rather unnerving, nay...worrying, to think that there are people walking amongst us and worse...VOTING...who believe the Earth is a flat disc!!

[Rbbi1]

Originally Posted by fishbrains

That initial symptom and biopsy must have been quite scary.

From a non-believer's point of view, I don't find this story convincing. Based on your posts, it seems that you had little medical care for this issue, possibly none until you started bleeding. There may not have been much medical history.

It is equally likely, perhaps even more likely, that the initial biopsy was incorrect. The second and third biopsy were the correct ones, and you never had cancer. The tumor was something else relatively benign.

This is why claims of faith healing are so unconvincing to me. There is never any solid medical proof, and there are always plausible alternate explanations.

I know that you will not find my post convincing. That is fine, i am not trying to convince you of anything. I am merely exploring the claims.

I understand. But you missed the point a bit, or maybe I wasn't clear enough, more likely. The initial biopsy was done 18 months approximately previously to the last 3, and they somehow managed to lose anything telling them to call me and make me aware that I had an aggressive form of cancer that had likely spread to other organs already. THEN, 18 months after they forgot to tell me, I start hemorrhaging buckets, so much so in 2 days the doctor ordered labs to see if I needed a transfusion already. One week later after this part happening and other tests, exams, and more importantly HIM telling me I was healed, ALL the biopsies were negative.

I've avoided this but this time I'm going to continue on with the WHOLE story, not the "bare bones" version. Even though He told I was healed, the doc wasn't convinced, but I didn't care. I continued to hemorrhage for exactly 7 weeks all total, with only a minor tapering off. Obviously, it was G-d that I didn't die from just that.

During that time period, I received a postcard announcing a pastor in Seattle I had known for 20 years was going to be one State over speaking on what was the 7th weekend from diagnosis. I had just before this, been given a dream by G-d (yes He gives dreams) with a word for this pastor. At the time, I thought how am I going to give this to him in person, Lord, I'm not going to Seattle am I? Two weeks later I got the postcard and I knew how I was going to give it to him.

So I go and that morning he announces that the Lord told him that He had given him a special anointing for people that needed a touch of healing in their bodies, and so after the evening service he would be praying for healing. Now I knew him well enough to know that he almost never said that, he was more of a teacher than anything, and if he did say it, then G-d said it.

So I think....okay, THIS is why You wanted me to be here, to "finish" what You began with my healing. So then when prayer time came after he spoke, I said in my mind to Him, "Lord?", meaning do I go for prayer or not?

I heard plainly, "NO." I was taken aback a bit, all things seemed to point to this being the defining moment for why He sent me there, I'm thinking, so I ask again, and the same answer came again, "NO". So I sit there and pray in agreement with the Pastor quietly for the 70 or so people that went up for prayer; it took about an hour.

Then as it's over and I turn to leave, the woman and her husband who had invited him to speak there, came up to me and she said, "I have no idea what this means, but the Lord gave me this word for you THIS MORNING during praise and worship." The word was, "Because of your obedience, you're healed."

I stopped hemorrhaging later that night. I've never had a relapse or any treatment of any kind. Before I get hit with the "boasting" comments, let me say that we are SUPPOSED to give Him the glory for all the things He does for us. Let me also say, that THIS is my new normal as of 32 years ago. THIS is why I believe and KNOW that He is Lord and Christ.

THIS is what believers are SUPPOSED to be walking in, religion robs of relationship and relationship is what brings manifestation. Unfortunately, most pastors out there regardless of what the denomination is, do not focus on you helping to show you how to have relationship with Him, they focus on you having relationship with THEM, so you can help build THEIR kingdom on the outside of you, instead of HIS kingdom inside of you.

This is not unusual, I've dozens of friends that could you tell you the same type of stories, for G-d is no respecter of persons, meaning He will do for others, what He does for one. Peace

[Rbbi1]

Originally Posted by Amaznjohn

I agree. I would have asked for and saved both images so that I could prove to myself and everyone who asked that I had received a supernatural healing.

As a babe in Him, especially, you're really not thinking about having to prove it to anyone. Anyone who knew me, anyone I worked with, could see the problems, knew the problems, and could see the result later. They didn't need images, they had one standing in front of them ie. this is me with a bone fragment sticking out, unable to bend my elbow (with a paralyzed hand on one side ) without it sounding like I'm chewing on marbles from across the room and nearly passing out from the pain of trying to, and this is me with no bone fragment, and my elbow is smooth as silk when I bend it and I have NO paralysis. What more was an image going to do? Peace

[Rbbi1]

Originally Posted by Amaznjohn

The Muslims, etc.. would say the same about their God(s), that they can tell from these same things. They DO call on their God(s) just as you do but claim that they are healed by them. How can you tell that you aren't and weren't always hearing Allah, or Vishnu, or simply your own brain simulating a voice? Do you have a way of testing it?

You are correct though, I don't know the process. If you have explained this earlier I apologize, but what exactly is the process, if you would take me through it step by step, of how God heals someone through you?

The best way I can think of to answer this, is how do you know your father from other fathers in the room? Isn't it because you've known him since birth? Barring any embarrassing unfounded questions pertaining to that line of reasoning (kidding here), could anyone convince you someone else was your father in the room?

I did; maybe in a post after this, I'm guessing? Read the part about the woman with leukemia. And it's not just how He does it through me, He does it the same way through others I know. Miss H has talked a bit about healing, too. He uses her basically the same way, from what I've read. Peace

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by Rbbi1

I understand. But you missed the point a bit, or maybe I wasn't clear enough, more likely. The initial biopsy was done 18 months approximately previously to the last 3, and they somehow managed to lose anything telling them to call me and make me aware that I had an aggressive form of cancer that had likely spread to other organs already. THEN, 18 months after they forgot to tell me, I start hemorrhaging buckets, so much so in 2 days the doctor ordered labs to see if I needed a transfusion already. One week later after this part happening and other tests, exams, and more importantly HIM telling me I was healed, ALL the biopsies were negative.

I've avoided this but this time I'm going to continue on with the WHOLE story, not the "bare bones" version. Even though He told I was healed, the doc wasn't convinced, but I didn't care. I continued to hemorrhage for exactly 7 weeks all total, with only a minor tapering off. Obviously, it was G-d that I didn't die from just that..

etc.


Well, you should understand there are three layers of problems with that - and not one says that it didn't happen.

(1) the event could have occurred with others; they may occur with others but, if someone wasn't doing a lot of praying, at the time, we'd never hear about them

(2) as said before. We have no idea how much of this apparently accurate circumstantial verification is spot on, misremembered or mentally tweaked to sound a bit better.

(3) even if all perfectly true and verified...(1) , We don't know what the cause or cure was and that you were praying at the time doesn't make the prayers the cause of the cure.

And the point Raffs makes - that none of this seems to get verified, validated proved and publicized, never made part of medical procedure even in hospitals funded by and staffed with believing Christians.

Now explain to me why that is


(1)we really need something better than

"I am going to prove the power of God - This man has had a chroniically broken knee for years..." (Prays at top of voice)

"How's the knee"

"Fine"

(omnes) "Halliujiah!")

[Rbbi1]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Quite! Rbbi is a charlatan. There is no doubt in my mind. I claim LfJ.

Indeed! Conferences, media interviews, magazine/newspaper articles, world speaking tours, plans for sainthood by the Catholic Church etc...but ...nothing.

How convenient!

BOOM!!

You can claim whatever you want. Anyone who has ever seen healing happen, KNOWS I'm telling the truth. And as always, I'd be happy to have a few friends post on here. I can't help the fact it's been decades. I wasn't planning THEN, on what I'm doing NOW, either.

I did receive a healing this last year though, and it is verifiable. I'm almost 61 years old and He's healed my eyesight. My vision is now better than it was when I was young and I had excellent vision all my life until I had to get readers about 10 years ago. Haven't been back to the eye doctor yet (was no point in it, it seemed to me), but my regular doc was amazed at my eye chart capabilities. I think He did it so I could read the fine print in my Strongs again, personally, and of course so I could testify to His healing power. Peace

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Rbbi1

The initial biopsy was done 18 months approximately previously to the last 3, and they somehow managed to lose anything telling them to call me and make me aware that I had an aggressive form of cancer that had likely spread to other organs already.

LMAO ! Are you on the same planet as the rest of us man...or are you floating around somewhere on little witness' flat Earth. This is utter bull-hockey! Hospitals don't take biopsies and say 'don't call us we'll call you' and then forget about you.There are many safeguards in place to ensure that things like that don't get missed. In addition to that, there is always a very quick scan of the x-ray at the moment of it being taken and a particularly aggressive form of cancer that had likely spread to other organs already would have been noticed there and then and your feet wouldn't have touched the ground before you would have been under the knife. Even if that isn't the case, they tell you to make an appointment for a week later either with the hospital or your GP to discuss the results.

Nor do normally sane people with more than half a working brain-cell, have a biopsy and then go 18 months without hearing anything from the hospital before thinking...'Wait a minute! I haven't heard anything about that biopsy I had. I'd better give them a ring and find out what has happened'....especially as, with such an aggressive cancer, you wouldn't have been feeling too well.Not to mention that IF you had had really did have a particularly aggressive form of cancer that could spread to other organs, you sure as hell wouldn't have lasted 18 months with it.

THEN, 18 months after they forgot to tell me, ...

...and you didn't once in 18 month think to give them a ring...especially when, having such a virulent and aggressive cancer, you couldn't have been feeling too well??



C'mon folks!!! This is ludicrous!!!

[Rbbi1]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

etc.


Well, you should understand there are three layers of problems with that - and not one says that it didn't happen.

(1) the event could have occurred with others; they may occur with others but, if someone wasn't doing a lot of praying, a the time, we'd never hear about them

(2) as said before. We have no idea how much of this apparently accurate circumstantial verification is spot on, misremembered or mentally tweaked to sound a bit better.

(3) even if all perfectly true and verified...(1) , We don't know what the cause or cure was and that you were praying at the time doesn't make the prayers the cause of the cure.

And the point Raffs makes - that none of this seems to get verified,validated proved and publicized, never made part of medical procedure even in hospitals funded by and staffed with believing Christians.

Now explain to me why that is


(1)we really need something better than

"I am going to prove the power of God - This man has had a chroniically broken knee for years..." (Prays at top of voice)

"How's the knee"

"Fine"

(omnes) "Halliujiah!")

I really couldn't tell you why they didn't "jump up and down and sound an alarm". I just don't know. The only one that ever got excited about anything was a nurse who came running into the room and announced, "I just watched your heart be healed on the monitor!" I gathered from that wording, that she was Christian.

A few minutes before this, I had awakened with a burning sensation in my chest/heart area and I had drug them in to find out if they had put any meds in my IVs that could cause this. I was so sick at the time, I didn't even realize that it was His burning, His fire. I wasn't expecting to be healed, I was expecting to die, as they had told me to call in my family. I didn't call in my family, I just prayed for His perfect will to be done, and rolled over and went to sleep. I awoke to this. Peace

[TroutDude]

Originally Posted by Rbbi1

I really couldn't tell you why they didn't "jump up and down and sound an alarm". I just don't know. The only one that ever got excited about anything was a nurse who came running into the room and announced, "I just watched your heart be healed on the monitor!" I gathered from that wording, that she was Christian.

A few minutes before this, I had awakened with a burning sensation in my chest/heart area and I had drug them in to find out if they had put any meds in my IVs that could cause this. I was so sick at the time, I didn't even realize that it was His burning, His fire. I wasn't expecting to be healed, I was expecting to die, as they had told me to call in my family. I didn't call in my family, I just prayed for His perfect will to be done, and rolled over and went to sleep. I awoke to this. Peace

What's...interesting, is that you were cured of so many darn conditions.

I guess the millions of children suffering and dying today aren't as special a snowflake to their g-d as you are. He's too busy taking care of you to deal with children in agony.

[303Guy]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Actually, I find it rather unnerving, nay...worrying, to think that there are people walking amongst us and worse...VOTING...who believe the Earth is a flat disc!!

I find this very disturbing too.

I googled flat earthers and apparently some of these people actually do believe the earth is flat!