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I rarely use science to challenge the Bible. My primary weapon is logic.
Why? Because quite often even WITH magic and miracles, the events in those stories make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
As we've said before: It may not convince the person I'm talking to, but it may convince someone else.
Bottom line is that, no matter how ineffective you might think these arguments are, saying nothing is even MORE ineffective, wouldn't you agree?
Actually I think it's better to try to understand and present the Bible as anti-religious propaganda which I believe it was. Nothing could be more effective than that.
Actually I think it's better to try to understand and present the Bible as anti-religious propaganda which I believe it was. Nothing could be more effective than that.
Did ya happen to notice the dates of some of these people? An eye witness or two, a contemporary out there?
Oy vez! Did ya notice that they are all Christians. Many of them are Church fathers...people with a vested interest in getting the plebs to believe what the Church is selling. I can't believe you are so daft as to be peddling this nonsense as 'evidence'....but I understand...it's all you have.
As for the eye-witness or two. Who? You cited....
Papias (A.D. 60-135).
Iranaeus (A.D. 120-202).
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 153-217).
Hippolytus (A.D. 170-236).
Tertullian (A.D. 145-221).
Origen (A.D. 185-254).
St. Jerome (342-420).
Ignatius of Antioch (35-100)
Dionysius of Corinth (d. 171)
Tertullian. (155–240 AD)
Looking at the dates they lived, perhaps you could explain how any of them could be eye-witnesses to the so called apostles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
Yeah! Me too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Well, I think we've adequately refuted the idea that atheism is a religion.
Being passionate about something -- or even fanatical -- doesn't make it a religion.
Trust me, there are many sports fans that are more fanatical about their favorite teams than even I am about atheism -- but that doesn't make sports a religion.
It takes more than deep passion or fanaticism toward something for that "something" to be branded a religion. Jeez, if that's all it took, just think of all the first amendment rights we would have?
"Uhm, I shouldn't have to work on any day when my team is playing because that interferes with my right to practice my religion!"
"Yeah! And as a Trekkie, I should get the day off on the birthdays of William Shatner and Patrick Stewart!"
The only reason -- the *only* reason -- why atheism seems like a religion is because atheism is inextricably linked to religion. That doesn't mean atheism is, in fact, a religion in its own right.
The number one dictionary definition of religion is: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
By that definition, claiming atheism is a religion is an oxymoron. Enough said about that.
The second definition is: a particular system of faith and worship.
Atheism doesn't have a "particular system." It's not even all that well organized. What's more, atheists don't worship anything.
The final definition is: a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
I think that the only reason they claim that atheism is a religion is so that they can say.... See! You're just as dumb as us!
As respects The Bible...what makes not only Atheists, but Theists as well, "look crazy"...is any consideration, analysis, discussion, or debate of the obviously metaphorical and allegorical stories it contains as literal. That's as "crazy" as it gets.
Flood higher than Everest, a guy parting seas, dude is executed & embalmed (so certainly dead) then shows up on the street alive a few days later and floats away on a cloud, etc, etc, etc, etc. Like I would take those stories literally or waste any time trying to debate whether they were! HaHaHaHa!
But as I have said before, I like "crazy"...so please do not stop. It is one of the things I like most about this board.
As respects The Bible...what makes not only Atheists, but Theists as well, "look crazy"...is any consideration, analysis, discussion, or debate of the obviously metaphorical and allegorical stories it contains as literal. That's as "crazy" as it gets.
Flood higher than Everest, a guy parting seas, dude is executed & embalmed (so certainly dead) then shows up on the street alive a few days later and floats away on a cloud, etc, etc, etc, etc. Like I would take those stories literally or waste any time trying to debate whether they were! HaHaHaHa!
But as I have said before, I like "crazy"...so please do not stop. It is one of the things I like most about this board.
He's back! He's Back! And as oblivious to the point as ever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
..(pardon the cut - I'll pay for Other drinks, too) ....
I think that the only reason they claim that atheism is a religion is so that they can say.... See! You're just as dumb as us!
Yes. this always amuses me. We get ...well, I can't say it any better. I suppose the idea is a backdoor way of accusing us of relying on Faith. Well, either way the simple and easy debunk is:-...
No -we rely on logical reasoning and scientifically validated evidence Which is why, even if atheism WAS a religion, it would still be as valid and the faith -based religions as invalid - as if it wasn't a religion; which is actually the case.
That's just my interpretation of the Bible. It takes a long time to read. The OT was about the loss of the first temple. The NT, the second. Both written after the events.
That's just my interpretation of the Bible. It takes a long time to read. The OT was about the loss of the first temple. The NT, the second. Both written after the events.
Hmm, okay, I was just wondering.
I can't honestly say that I've really seen the Bible used as "anti-religion propaganda" so I was curious how it worked, but if it would take a lot of typing and lots of time to explain, don't worry about it. I might look into it on my own.
Ozzy has a point. But I go the feeling tha it wasn't so much anti religion as per what God instructed should be done, but telling humans that the punishments they god when they were expecting God's help instead of being beaten up, their temple pulled down and the treasures carted off was because of their wickedness.
Same old story - if everyting goes well, God gets the credit. If anything goes wrong, man gets the blame.
What I think is I could care less if they want to believe the myths written in that little book, so as long as they keep it where it belongs...which is NOT in our public school rooms, politics, or science classes.
The Declaration of Independence invokes God 4 times.
That document formed the foundation upon which a nation staked its claim to existence.
Religion belongs in private lives and church but God permeates America.
The thing that makes anyone appear disturbed is when they try to prove the non existence of what they claim does not exist.
If anyone wants to disbelieve the bible, I agree, I wouldn't believe in their interpretation of the bible either.
As respects The Bible...what makes not only Atheists, but Theists as well, "look crazy"...is any consideration, analysis, discussion, or debate of the obviously metaphorical and allegorical stories it contains as literal. That's as "crazy" as it gets.
Ah yes, but who, then would be the crazy ones?
Those who actually take the Bible literally or those who argue against it?
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Did ya notice that they are all Christians. Many of them are Church fathers...people with a vested interest in getting the plebs to believe what the Church is selling. I can't believe you are so daft as to be peddling this nonsense as 'evidence'....but I understand...it's all you have.
