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Thank you for the posting. It is an interesting study that I would have otherwise missed.
As for an "evolving society," I would agree that the decline in religious association/belief is a facet of the evolving U.S. society, but whether in and of itself it will be beneficial is debatable.
And there are other very strong - perhaps much stronger - forces that are shaping the evolving society and their influence may make the suggested benefit of religious decline negligible.
The loss of privacy through the use of personal devices, i.e. cellphone
Elevation of entertainment celebrities to the level of authoritative commentators in politics, etc.
Consumerism and mindless personal greed
Fear focused on the loss of national importance in the face of international change, rather than a belief in the ability of the country to adapt and change to these changes.
Factionalism
"Relationships" developed and dependent upon web sites, texting, etc. rather than heavy on personal in-the-flesh contact.
And other factors as well. My own feeling is that if we end up a nation of idiot jackasses, it won't matter whether we go to church, synagogue or temple or not. Jackasses with their noses glued to their smartphones are not an improvement over jackasses with their noses glued to a sectarian holy book, they are jackasses still.
Matadora wrote, "You should do some research on developed secular nations and see how much better the quality of life is in those countries."
I emigrated to Europe, so I get to see some of these societies and they are not alike in their "quality of life" as far as my own personal thoughts are concerned. But then we would have to be off and running on what "quality of life" can mean, and that may be beyond the original intention of the thread. I will say that I am living in a nation that is rapidly losing its active Christian religious element, and what is evolving is very disheartening because the new factors seem to be even more destructive on some levels.
Yes. I am aware of that. But I have to beware of intellectual snobbery. Raffs loves heavy Rock of a kind that does not figure on my wants list.
I listen to stuff he would probably pay pure gold to be excused. But he is no less smart than me and probably smarter.
I may deplore 'celebrity' worship but the method of erotic communication by email is no different from the love -letter -writing of the 19th century and a frankly waff idealization of the sex -act, nor dating sites any different from the places to get acquainted in the pre war days or the meat -market 'Dances' of the post war. In fact, doing it online is positively rational and dignified by comparison..
We need to be very careful of getting miffed because our own particular fads and fancies are not being endorsed by the populace and peeing over all those uninterested Others as being distracted by reality TV and smartphones.
It's always been that way, and the rights and wrongs of society is in our (humans) hands, which is why we have to be here, Polemicising, and why Matadora's welcome thread may be an encouraging Sign.
Two things have to happen: a dissenting generation has to replace the believer generation, who rarely Give it Up. They need a focus. You cannot herd cats, but you can draw them to a large saucer of milk.
They often say politics changes nothing. I say, just let the politicians realize that a third of their vote depends on playing ball with the Nones, and we'll see.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-11-2017 at 08:20 AM..
Yes. Oh Yes. Right from the start, I saw the Internet as a mine of information. In fact without it I could not do my jhob - I mean in the days when I worked for a living rather than leached off the system as I do now.
At that time I was bewildered by those who snarled at it and how it was leading people astray, deluding them and feeding them false information.
The readers will understand that this moaning came from those peddling all sorts of tosh and who were terrified that people would check.
We could not do our work here or other goddless do their work without the instant means to refute the false claims of Theism. Where would we be without Talk Origins, Snopes or Wiki?(1) Theists could deluge us under a load of stuff that we couldn't check other than by reading a book, calling the people involved or going and researching ourselves. Now hogwash like this can be debunked in half a minute.
It is almost forming an axiom in my mind - anyone who has a Down on the Internet is on fear of being exposed.
It is no secret why the Genesis -literalists want to control education. But even where they do, Kids get on the Internet. You canot fool them for ever. That's the difference between: "Do not listen to anyone else - shun them! Listen only to US" and we, who say "Check, argue, question, upset what we thought! Bring new information. This is all good for all of us - but it isn't good for those who want to keep us ignorant so we can be controlled."
Don't let 'em do it to you.
(1) Browsers would probably recall periodic efforts to piddle on Wiki. This was cheap as Wiki is Not more Authoritative than a dictionary - it gives various information as a guide, and it can be followed up. I also noted the Iconic 'Atheist Barbie' had as part of the costume a laptop to check Snopes. Testimony to how that has been an invaluable tool in debunking the peddlers of bunk.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-11-2017 at 10:31 AM..
Especially science education. It's clear where the anti-science mentality comes from.
I agree with Shirina...even though the study shows an evolving society with respect to religion...we are light years away from being a truly successful society.
Notice how Matadora's post said: White evangelical Protestants remain the dominant religious force in the GOP.
Your whole post that I'm quoting a small part of is eloquent and as usual I couldn't improve on it if I tried.
But I did want to point out that you (and Matadora) have touched on something often overlooked here, which is that WHITE evangelicals often seem to be 98% what we tend to think of when we talk about fundamentalists. As this article points out, black evangelicals don't generally appreciate being lumped in with them, because although they are theologically similar, they tend not to be in lockstep with the far right and are in fact often substantively opposed to it.
America is always changing. I'm not saying I like or agree with the numbers (or that they are correct, without researching them further). Americans and their religious/spiritual beliefs and choices will always be changing, just as population and culture are also always changing.
Other than a cursory interest, it's not something we change change or do anything about. And in the end, we are responsible for our own personal destiny, regardless of what the masses are doing or thinking.
Thank you for the posting. It is an interesting study that I would have otherwise missed.
Thank Lawrence Krauss...he posted it on his social media sites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu
As for an "evolving society," I would agree that the decline in religious association/belief is a facet of the evolving U.S. society, but whether in and of itself it will be beneficial is debatable.
Replacing fundamental dogma with education, will hopefully lead our society to be an informed democracy. Fundamental religion and quality education don't go well together.
Historically, Christianity and science often have come into conflict with each other, as illustrated by the 17th century clash between astronomer Galileo Galilei and the Roman Catholic Church, as well as the condemnation by prominent religious leaders of Charles Darwin’s 1859 theory of human evolution. The Scopes Monkey trial in 1925 further highlighted the rift between science and some branches of Christianity over the theory of evolution, a contentious relationship that endures even today.
How many top STEM professionals earned their education from a religious institution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu
My own feeling is that if we end up a nation of idiot jackasses, it won't matter whether we go to church, synagogue or temple or not. Jackasses with their noses glued to their smartphones are not an improvement over jackasses with their noses glued to a sectarian holy book, they are jackasses still.
There will always be jackasses in the population. However people being glued to screens today is really do different then people being glued to screens in the past. Screens are more accessible and affordable now. It's unfortunate how the younger generation has turned to using screens as a means to socialize. However that's an entirely different topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu
Matadora wrote, "You should do some research on developed secular nations and see how much better the quality of life is in those countries."
I should have been more specific and pointed towards the secular Scandinavian countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu
I will say that I am living in a nation that is rapidly losing its active Christian religious element, and what is evolving is very disheartening because the new factors seem to be even more destructive on some levels.
Can;t be the US because every time a president promises to beef up the military and kick some heathen ass, the Christians widdle themselves with delight.
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