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Old 09-20-2017, 11:16 PM
 
63,849 posts, read 40,128,566 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
So you are equating "accept" with "love", and believe that God is incapable of loving someone/thing that is not perfect?
Can you lead me through the thought process that has led you to that conclusion?
There is no thought process that could lead to that conclusion.
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:17 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,051,694 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I'm accepted and loved by God because I'm righteous in his eyes because I have the righteousness of Christ.
But G-d says that is not possible...
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:31 AM
 
Location: California USA
1,714 posts, read 1,150,568 times
Reputation: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I think Christianity is G--d's way of testing people to see if they will actually do deep research to find the truth rather than rely on opinion or feelings...
I think major religions such as Christianity and Islam are indebted to Judaism's Scriptures to varying degrees. However, just like most denominations within Christianity modern day Judaism has been influenced by extra-biblical philosophies and traditions. In the days between Alexander the Great and the time leading up to subjugation of the Jews by the Roman Empire Greek reasoning began to mix with Jewish revelation. Ultimately, years late the Talmud would show Greek influence including the Jewish adaptation of immortality of the soul and Rabbinic Judaism replaced Biblical Judaism with the Talmud taking center stage. Does a person believe in resurrection only, as indicated in early Biblical Judaism or is one to be in expectation of an afterlife as taught in Rabbinic Judaism? A contradiction if you ask me and one which is shared by many Christian churches.

"In Judaism the decision-making body had historically been the Sanhedrin, the Jewish parliament of 71 rabbis. It was established at the turn of the first millennium and had the task of adapting the faith to ever-changing conditions. Their debates are recorded in the Mishnah and Talmud. They reformed Judaism to such an extent that what emerged was no longer recognisable as Biblical Judaism and became known as Rabbinic Judaism."-Rabbi Dr. Jonathan Romain, Reform Judaism, BBC

The other change has been in the view of the Messiah:

As noted in the New World Encyclopedia..." By the first century B.C.E., Jews interpreted their scriptures to refer specifically to someone appointed by God to deliver them from oppression under the Romans. Christians came to see the scriptures as referring to a spiritual savior, rather than a worldly political savior, specifically identifying Jesus as that Messiah."

Today, there is Orthodox Judaism- Hasidim, Reform Judaism, and conservative Judaism. Orthodox Judaism believes the Messiah is yet to appear, Reform Judaism seems to be less focused on a personal Messiah and more on a "Messianic period" associated with peace and prosperity. It does seem today that many Jews aren't in expectation of a personal Messiah.

Which form of Judaism should one follow having undergone the "Christianity Test?" Which one aids a follower to the true God? Was Judaism wrong in the early years when there was an expectation of an appointed one? A Messiah? Should one follow the earlier form of Judaism that was influenced by Greek philosophy or should one follow the later more modern non Messianic forms?

I think any sincere Jew and one inclined to look at Judaism should not view Jesus as represented by the majority of Christian churches but rather view him as represented by the Jewish writers of the New Testament or Greek Scriptures. That's where deep research would be most helpful.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:46 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,051,694 times
Reputation: 2228
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
I think major religions such as Christianity and Islam are indebted to Judaism's Scriptures to varying degrees. However, just like most denominations within Christianity modern day Judaism has been influenced by extra-biblical philosophies and traditions. In the days between Alexander the Great and the time leading up to subjugation of the Jews by the Roman Empire Greek reasoning began to mix with Jewish revelation. Ultimately, years late the Talmud would show Greek influence including the Jewish adaptation of immortality of the soul and Rabbinic Judaism replaced Biblical Judaism with the Talmud taking center stage. Does a person believe in resurrection only, as indicated in early Biblical Judaism or is one to be in expectation of an afterlife as taught in Rabbinic Judaism? A contradiction if you ask me and one which is shared by many Christian churches.

"In Judaism the decision-making body had historically been the Sanhedrin, the Jewish parliament of 71 rabbis. It was established at the turn of the first millennium and had the task of adapting the faith to ever-changing conditions. Their debates are recorded in the Mishnah and Talmud. They reformed Judaism to such an extent that what emerged was no longer recognisable as Biblical Judaism and became known as Rabbinic Judaism."-Rabbi Dr. Jonathan Romain, Reform Judaism, BBC

The other change has been in the view of the Messiah:

As noted in the New World Encyclopedia..." By the first century B.C.E., Jews interpreted their scriptures to refer specifically to someone appointed by God to deliver them from oppression under the Romans. Christians came to see the scriptures as referring to a spiritual savior, rather than a worldly political savior, specifically identifying Jesus as that Messiah."

Today, there is Orthodox Judaism- Hasidim, Reform Judaism, and conservative Judaism. Orthodox Judaism believes the Messiah is yet to appear, Reform Judaism seems to be less focused on a personal Messiah and more on a "Messianic period" associated with peace and prosperity. It does seem today that many Jews aren't in expectation of a personal Messiah.

Which form of Judaism should one follow having undergone the "Christianity Test?" Which one aids a follower to the true God? Was Judaism wrong in the early years when there was an expectation of an appointed one? A Messiah? Should one follow the earlier form of Judaism that was influenced by Greek philosophy or should one follow the later more modern non Messianic forms?

I think any sincere Jew and one inclined to look at Judaism should not view Jesus as represented by the majority of Christian churches but rather view him as represented by the Jewish writers of the New Testament or Greek Scriptures. That's where deep research would be most helpful.
You quoted a reform rabbi...
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:47 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,033,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
But G-d says that is not possible...
How so?
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:57 AM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,401,842 times
Reputation: 2378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
So you are equating "accept" with "love", and believe that God is incapable of loving someone/thing that is not perfect?

Can you lead me through the thought process that has led you to that conclusion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is no thought process that could lead to that conclusion.

I don't think so, and since BaptistFundie isn't responding, perhaps he doesn't either.
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:01 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,033,638 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
So you are equating "accept" with "love", and believe that God is incapable of loving someone/thing that is not perfect?

Can you lead me through the thought process that has led you to that conclusion?
Have you read Romans? Romans 9?

God does hate sinners. He loves his children.
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:01 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,750,770 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
To suggest it's anti-semitic, one must assign motive to the writers. That isn't justified by the writing. The Gospels record the events, and I'm not sure there is any editorializing to assign motive or blame where it doesn't lie. The Gospels do not paint all Jews as bad, only the specific leaders. It is no more anti-semitic than a movie about slavery says all white people are racist.
I see the gospels as a Transitional form of christian evolution. (write that one on your wall ) from Jesus as the man -messiah of Paul the Jew to Jesus the man -god of the Greek Christians, and from Paul who only denounced Jews who did not accept his views to the Christian gospel -writers who, as Greeks - already hated the Jews. The anti Semitism was already there. They just needed spread it to Jews as a whole.

Notably, Matthew expresses the feeling that ALL Jewry were to blame for Jesus being killed. Matthew, feeling that it could look as though the Sanhedrin or ever 'the crowd' who called for his execution were still not Jews as a whole, so he writes in a passage (not found in the other gospels) having them wish on themselves and all future generations, the guilt for Jesus' death.

This passage tells us a lot about Matthew himself, the Gospel - writers as a bunch and the Christianity of that time. And none of it is very nice.
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:03 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,750,770 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I'm accepted and loved by God because I'm righteous in his eyes because I have the righteousness of Christ.

God cannot condone sin, so I want to know why you believe, that if you're less than perfect, that God would accept you?
What I want to know is, what makes you think you're so perfect that you can start to ask others why they're not?
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:05 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,033,638 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
What I want to know is, what makes you think you're so perfect that you can start to ask others why they're not?
What have I said to suggest that I believe in the slightest that I'm in any way qualified as "perfect"? I've never said anything close to that.

My righteousness is ENTIRELY based on what Jesus did. NOTHING more.
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