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He also told folks to do what the Pharisee told them to do...
I have posted and deleted severl times in reply. So I'll just say a separate thread on this is needed. Chapter and verse first. I think I know, but you need to identify where you think in the gospels Jesus told folks to do that.
I think major religions such as Christianity and Islam are indebted to Judaism's Scriptures to varying degrees. However, just like most denominations within Christianity modern day Judaism has been influenced by extra-biblical philosophies and traditions. In the days between Alexander the Great and the time leading up to subjugation of the Jews by the Roman Empire Greek reasoning began to mix with Jewish revelation. Ultimately, years late the Talmud would show Greek influence including the Jewish adaptation of immortality of the soul and Rabbinic Judaism replaced Biblical Judaism with the Talmud taking center stage. Does a person believe in resurrection only, as indicated in early Biblical Judaism or is one to be in expectation of an afterlife as taught in Rabbinic Judaism? A contradiction if you ask me and one which is shared by many Christian churches.
"In Judaism the decision-making body had historically been the Sanhedrin, the Jewish parliament of 71 rabbis. It was established at the turn of the first millennium and had the task of adapting the faith to ever-changing conditions. Their debates are recorded in the Mishnah and Talmud. They reformed Judaism to such an extent that what emerged was no longer recognisable as Biblical Judaism and became known as Rabbinic Judaism."-Rabbi Dr. Jonathan Romain, Reform Judaism, BBC
The other change has been in the view of the Messiah:
As noted in the New World Encyclopedia..." By the first century B.C.E., Jews interpreted their scriptures to refer specifically to someone appointed by God to deliver them from oppression under the Romans. Christians came to see the scriptures as referring to a spiritual savior, rather than a worldly political savior, specifically identifying Jesus as that Messiah."
Today, there is Orthodox Judaism- Hasidim, Reform Judaism, and conservative Judaism. Orthodox Judaism believes the Messiah is yet to appear, Reform Judaism seems to be less focused on a personal Messiah and more on a "Messianic period" associated with peace and prosperity. It does seem today that many Jews aren't in expectation of a personal Messiah.
Which form of Judaism should one follow having undergone the "Christianity Test?" Which one aids a follower to the true God? Was Judaism wrong in the early years when there was an expectation of an appointed one? A Messiah? Should one follow the earlier form of Judaism that was influenced by Greek philosophy or should one follow the later more modern non Messianic forms?
I think any sincere Jew and one inclined to look at Judaism should not view Jesus as represented by the majority of Christian churches but rather view him as represented by the Jewish writers of the New Testament or Greek Scriptures. That's where deep research would be most helpful.
Thanks. This (for me) is thinking along the right lines. But you will have to sort out with Richard why quoting a reform Rabbi somehow is a problem.
The book of Romans lays it out in a logical, reasonable order. I can tell by your response the answer to "Have you read it?" is no. I suspected as much.
My thought process is that which Paul uses in Romans. I'd suggest if you want to understand it, read it. It'll take you less than an hour to read it beginning to end. I can't do justice to it to try to give you a recap in a paragraph and I doubt you'd read it all anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Have you read Romans? Romans 9?
Yes, as it is probably the most beastly and dishonest thing he wrote - which is saying something, as wella s forming part of of the flawed and biased argument that Romans is. Oh yes, I've read it.
And yes--perfection is needed to be accepted and loved by God. But none of us can be, so that's why Jesus died. He lived a perfect life and died to pay for OUR sin.
Oh come on. Why did Jesus save you and not Me, or the whole of humanity?
The book of Romans lays it out in a logical, reasonable order. I can tell by your response the answer to "Have you read it?" is no. I suspected as much.
My thought process is that which Paul uses in Romans. I'd suggest if you want to understand it, read it. It'll take you less than an hour to read it beginning to end. I can't do justice to it to try to give you a recap in a paragraph and I doubt you'd read it all anyway.
Romans 9 reiterates the argument that might makes right. No one in his right mind believes that.
Again...you really have no clue what the Bible says about election, do you?
God saved me, and I have no clue why. It's entirely his choice, and nothing I did qualified me to be saved.
Khalid said the same thing when I leaned on him "You don't understand the Quran".
I'm asking you to explain because, even if I had studied the Bible for a year (1) yopu could stil disagree - just as Christians do amongst themselves.
So. Why do you think God has saved you? And How do you know that he hasn't saved me? I and my beliefs and my lack of perfection had nothing to do with it apparently, it would be God's decision.
How do you know that all those people whom you are asking whether they are perfect or not haven't been saved by God as much as you?
(1) in fact I've studied it for thirty and I suspect I understand it better than you, even if you know more theology than I do.
I have posted and deleted severl times in reply. So I'll just say a separate thread on this is needed. Chapter and verse first. I think I know, but you need to identify where you think in the gospels Jesus told folks to do that.
It is essentially a place where Jesus told the common people not to fight city hall, but not to do as the Pharisees did. It's been covered and Richard knows that.
matt 23: 1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them."
"Moses' seat" combines civil and religious authority.
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Oh come on. Why did Jesus save you and not Me, or the whole of humanity?
