Does the feeling of religious superiority show ignorance and insecurity? (Buddhist, hell)
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Each human being has potential to do good and do bad. An atheist could be doing good and living moral life but what's there to hold him back from doing bad as he has the potential to do so unless he also fears God as a consequence of his bad act?
What is with the forum lately, with these constant implications that atheists can’t be moral? I am simultaneously offended that theists would think this of people, while being appalled that apparently the threat of eternal punishment is the only thing keeping Christians from killing me in my sleep.
It would be easy to feel that way about my religion yet I simply look at as it's right for me, I enjoy it and I get something out of it. It's definitely not right for everyone.
Yet I know some Christians who feel their religion is morally superior. They don't seem to understand how a person of another faith, especially an atheist could have similar core values and live a moral life simply because doing right makes them feel good and they don't need the fear of God. Maybe it's because they tend to keep a limited social circle of like minded believers or don't have that much experience or knowledge about other religions?
I know I'll get the question "How do you define morals"? I don't think it's up to me to define it, but I would say love, being open minded to people of differences and actions over words are good values to start with.
Christianity is not my religion; however, the concept of "fear of God and doing good" is slightly different in my faith.
We try to do what's morally good in the "love of God", and we try to abstain form doing bad and doing wrong to others in the "fear of God". (and also, in an effort to abide by the law of the land).
So far as the feeling of superiority goes, it's also slightly different in my faith.
The feeling of proudness and superiority that leads to arrogance is actually a sin. Meekness and docility is what's recomended.
Christianity is not my religion; however, the concept of "fear of God and doing good" is slightly different in my faith.
We try to do what's morally good in the "love of God", and we try to abstain form doing bad and doing wrong to others in the "fear of God". (and also, in an effort to abide by the law of the land).
So far as the feeling of superiority goes, it's also slightly different in my faith.
The feeling of proudness and superiority that leads to arrogance is actually a sin. Meekness and docility is what's recomended.
I like the part about superiority being bad but do non-believers feel your religion oppresses people? If so, that seems like a contradiction to me.
To think a religion has to be right for everyone may come across sounding like a bigot. People are in different situations and there isn't a one size fits all in terms of religion.
It all depends on what is your definition of "religion". Right religion must be right for everyone or else it isn't right religion. Right religion will be right for people in different situations. Right religion will allow you to adopt to different situations.
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Originally Posted by Jumbo10
My religion is very diverse in terms of beliefs and very progressive. It doesn't appeal to my Christian friends and family members, especially the conservative ones. I'm fine with that and we sometimes talk religion but I don't want to directly offend or worse make them feel uneasy/anxious. I recognize and accept what my religion does for me personally, but feel no need to try to convert anyone.
Religion is not only about "belief", and certainly not about converting people, but mainly about one's actions in this life on earth.
It's because many (most?) fundies lack empathy and a fully-functioning conscience. They NEED restraints/spiritual shackles to keep them staggering along a more-or-less moral line.
I disagree. Every human being has potential to do both good and bad. All need restraints if they are to be control themselves from doing bad action. It isn't fool-proof shackle as people still do bad acts. It is merely a reminder and not a preventer (due to freewill).
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Originally Posted by TroutDude
Most people do not. Their sense of right/wrong, good/bad, hurtful/helpful, is in-born -- whether they worship Allah/God/G-d/Cosmic Mushroom/Nothing At All.
Potential to do bad is also in-born.
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Originally Posted by TroutDude
It's why one of the most puzzling things to a fundie is the concept of an ethical atheist. They just cannot wrap their simple little heads around it.
Wrong! This is denying that atheists don't do anything bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
Bless their hearts.
And rue their stunted spirits.
And hope their children manage a real education. At least.
We will get nowhere unless we recognize that all of us have potential to do good as well as do bad. Religion teaches me to do good and forbid evil. And this knowledge has been passed on to my children. They too are doing good and restraining themselves from doing evil action. And of course they are also teachers and lecturers in their respective educational institutions instead of living in caves where only religious belief matters..
What is with the forum lately, with these constant implications that atheists can’t be moral? I am simultaneously offended that theists would think this of people, while being appalled that apparently the threat of eternal punishment is the only thing keeping Christians from killing me in my sleep.
I'd noticed a sudden resurgence of the "atheism means immorality" apologetic. I thought that one had been put to bed. Well, the debunk of that os well known, so it shouldn't take long, not only to knock it on the head, but show up religion as indulging in a smear campaign against atheism, yet again.
It's not religion that oppresses people (religion is against oppression) but people oppress other people.
But religion (1) can - and often does -give them the weapon they need and the justification for using it. Religion can give people a feeling that they need to oppress others where otherwise (if they followed humanist morality, rather than some supposedly -dive command) they wouldn't. As Tzaph says, I couldn't disagree with you more.
(1) I wrote quote a post on "definition of religion" but cancelled it (you'd be surprised how much I cancel ) but defining religion is futile in a practical sense and really an academic exercise. in this context it comes under the heading of "Doing things for imaginary reasons". It's similar to superstition.
P.s that also answers yout last post. Yes, humans do what humans do. This is what humanism recognizes. And yes, religion can get people to do good things because their religiin says so. Doing good for the wrong reasons. They can also do bad for invalid reasons - because they think their religion says so.
You slipped up badly with the 'atherists do bad things' liner. Of course we don't claim to be plaster saints. We do claim to be no worse than any other humans, including the religious. The Morality argument against atheism utterly fails.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-05-2017 at 05:24 AM..
It would be easy to feel that way about my religion yet I simply look at as it's right for me, I enjoy it and I get something out of it. It's definitely not right for everyone.
Yes. It can. It shouldn't, but it can.
Quote:
Yet I know some Christians who feel their religion is morally superior. They don't seem to understand how a person of another faith, especially an atheist could have similar core values and live a moral life simply because doing right makes them feel good and they don't need the fear of God. Maybe it's because they tend to keep a limited social circle of like minded believers or don't have that much experience or knowledge about other religions?
I think most of us agree that murder, rape, stealing, etc, are wrong. But I also have co-workers that do things I don't do, and that I believe God doesn't want me to do. It doesn't make me a better person, but we do adhere to different standards of morality.
Quote:
I know I'll get the question "How do you define morals"? I don't think it's up to me to define it, but I would say love, being open minded to people of differences and actions over words are good values to start with.
Those are great values to start with. Ultimately, true morality starts with what God has stated is moral and immoral.
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