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I think Tzaph is on -topic here. But One person's activist is another person's extremist. I regard myself as 'militant atheist', but because I am active. I would consider an atheist extremist one who causes vandalism and damage to religious property. Others consider atheists 'extremist' if they do anything more than hide in a corner.
an example of atheist extremist, militant atheist, is saying religion should be eliminated.
an example of atheist extremist, militant atheist, is saying its OK for an atheist to lie about who they are and have a fake profile online and pose as a religious person making fake posts (this happened on CD recently).
those are two examples that come to mind.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-18-2018 at 04:31 PM..
Here is an example of extremism from another thread, "I absolutely HATE-- with the greatest passion on earth -- ... so intensely that I dream about terrorizing those who do such vile and disgusting acts ...in such a way that I would never never never feel one bit of remorse double-tapping them and tossing them into the hottest burning that ever may have existed."
this from someone who claims to have left extremism behind, it's one of your quotes zhat.
My point is i agree with you that extremist behavior is problematic and needs to be addressed; and my point is also that you continue to make extremist statements and engage in extremist behavior. I find your repeated violent imagery, graphic brutal violence, admitted intense hate, and specific violent fantasies that you list very disturbing.
Then you are making his point for him and I agree. I believe my PFC was damaged by the group I grew up in and I'm trying hard to fix that, if it's even possible. So if someone's brain is damaged they don't just leave and the damages reverses itself. If you see what you believe to be a PFC damaged atheist there may be a correlation between that and an extremist upbringing.
Then you are making his point for him and I agree. I believe my PFC was damaged by the group I grew up in and I'm trying hard to fix that, if it's even possible. So if someone's brain is damaged they don't just leave and the damages reverses itself. If you see what you believe to be a PFC damaged atheist there may be a correlation between that and an extremist upbringing.
there is also a direct correlation between someone's extremist behavior, and whether they seek help for it, and their views/attitudes towards seeking help. The more open someone is to engaging in counseling, therapy, and addiction recovery programs, the more likely they are to be able to heal. To change extremist behavior (which is unhealthy behavior) it requires a willingness to engage in those types of programs and use those tools.
and the inverse holds true as well: the LESS willing someone is to engage in counseling, therapy, addiction recovery programs, the more stuck they stay in their extremist behavior. it is about human behavior and our willingness and ability to seek professional help and engage in self-improvement and self-refinement programs.
my observation on these forums is that extremists (of both the atheist and religious stripe) often ridicule and speak out against programs such as counseling, therapy, and addiction recovery. There is a direct correlation there. The language of blaming others (or hating others, or villifying others, or ridiculing others, or mocking others, or denigrating others, or using pejorative language on an ongoing basis) is the language of fanatics and zealots and extremists.
a person can blame religion or blame their parents or blame the government or blame the politicians or blame their upbringing or blame their childhood and stay stuck in that toxic draining miserable place of blame. Or they can decide to act like an adult, get themselves to counseling or therapy or an addiction recovery program, learn healthy behavior, take responsibility for their own life and their own relationships and their own interactions. Instead of hating and blaming.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-18-2018 at 07:47 PM..
there is also a direct correlation between someone's extremist behavior, and whether they seek help for it, and their views/attitudes towards seeking help. The more open someone is to engaging in counseling, therapy, and addiction recovery programs, the more likely they are to be able to heal. To change extremist behavior (which is unhealthy behavior) it requires a willingness to engage in those types of programs and use those tools.
and the inverse holds true as well: the LESS willing someone is to engage in counseling, therapy, addiction recovery programs, the more stuck they stay in their extremist behavior. it is about human behavior and our willingness and ability to seek professional help and engage in self-improvement and self-refinement programs.
my observation on these forums is that extremists (of both the atheist and religious stripe) often ridicule and speak out against programs such as counseling, therapy, and addiction recovery. There is a direct correlation there. The language of blaming others (or hating others, or villifying others, or ridiculing others, or mocking others, or denigrating others, or using pejorative language on an ongoing basis) is the language of fanatics and zealots and extremists.
a person can blame religion or blame their parents or blame the government or blame the politicians or blame their upbringing or blame their childhood and stay stuck in that toxic draining miserable place of blame. Or they can decide to act like an adult, get themselves to counseling or therapy or an addiction recovery program, learn healthy behavior, take responsibility for their own life and their own relationships and their own interactions. Instead of hating and blaming.
I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you saying people that don't see their behavior as a problem wouldn't seek help? If your PFC is damaged that may be the case. I haven't seen anyone ridicule professional help when necessary. You'll have to give me examples.
an example of atheist extremist, militant atheist, is saying religion should be eliminated.
an example of atheist extremist, militant atheist, is saying its OK for an atheist to lie about who they are and have a fake profile online and pose as a religious person making fake posts (this happened on CD recently).
those are two examples that come to mind.
The article wasn't really looking at extremism. It was looking at fundamentalism. Anyone can have an open mind and be able to consider multiple ideas together and still be an extremist at some point in their life.
Furthermore, an extremist is not anyone that wants to end what they think is a demonstrably bad thing; nor is it someone who thinks it is to OK to lie for what they believe to be the greater good.
I know the social injustice warriors (the anti-SJWs) might have corrupted the language a bit, though. But that is not what "extremist" means, it's not what "militant" means. It's not even what "fundamentalist" means.
Extremism is about being the minority, the fringe, and strongly and proudly so... often to the point of taking actions deemed as "over the top." Perhaps you deem antitheism as a "proud, fringe" stance... but I don't currently see it as proud, I often see it as well-measured. I also don't deem being an idiot, a spy, a poe, or a mole as "over the top." I do deem being a troll as over the top, though.
Then you are making his point for him and I agree. I believe my PFC was damaged by the group I grew up in and I'm trying hard to fix that, if it's even possible. So if someone's brain is damaged they don't just leave and the damages reverses itself. If you see what you believe to be a PFC damaged atheist there may be a correlation between that and an extremist upbringing.
Doubtful, the whole point of a fundamentalist identity is NOT being open-minded and NOT being able to consider multiple ideas very well. Something you -instead- demonstrate to be keen on in laudable ways.
But like I said, extremism and fundamentalism are different (although possibly intersecting/interdependent) things.
an example of atheist extremist, militant atheist, is saying religion should be eliminated.
an example of atheist extremist, militant atheist, is saying its OK for an atheist to lie about who they are and have a fake profile online and pose as a religious person making fake posts (this happened on CD recently).
those are two examples that come to mind.
Understood. I certainly don't see that as the usual run, just...extremists.
The article wasn't really looking at extremism. It was looking at fundamentalism. Anyone can have an open mind and be able to consider multiple ideas together and still be an extremist at some point in their life.
Furthermore, an extremist is not anyone that wants to end what they think is a demonstrably bad thing; nor is it someone who thinks it is to OK to lie for what they believe to be the greater good.
I know the social injustice warriors (the anti-SJWs) might have corrupted the language a bit, though. But that is not what "extremist" means, it's not what "militant" means. It's not even what "fundamentalist" means. ...
This thread is very much about extremism. Read the title of this thread. Read the opening post. Read the link text in rhe opening post. Allthose specifically refer to extremism as the topic of this thread.
Read post #7 and post #17 by the person who started this thread. Those address extremism. That is the behavior, or constellation of behaviors, being discussed.
You can (and have done so) share what those words mean to you and how you use them and define them. It's always fun to see people do that because often their personal biases appear as they squirm regarding word usage.
...Extremism is about being the minority, the fringe, and strongly and proudly so... often to the point of taking actions deemed as "over the top." Perhaps you deem antitheism as a "proud, fringe" stance... but I don't currently see it as proud, I often see it as well-measured. I also don't deem being an idiot, a spy, a poe, or a mole as "over the top." I do deem being a troll as over the top, though.
There is nothing balanced or "well measured" about being anti-religion or anti-God or anti-theism. Those are fanatical extremes.
It's like being anti- men. Or anti-women. People may hold those views and have their reasons based on their personal history and personal experience and personal preferences.
But it is a huge leap (an irrational, dysfunctional, fanatic, extremist leap) from "I had a horrible marriage" to "men are pigs." From "my mother was a narcissist" to "women are toxic." From "i don't like church" to "religion requires you to be brain damaged." From "i don't believe in God" to "religious people are mentally ill." From "atheist" to "anti theist"
The fanatic (the zealot, the extremist) often lacks the ability to see those large, glaring differences. They dont see the second statement in each example above as problematic at all. The extremist often displays rabid hostility and intolerance. That is not balanced or well measured.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-19-2018 at 08:03 AM..
I'm not sure what your point is here. Are you saying people that don't see their behavior as a problem wouldn't seek help? If your PFC is damaged that may be the case. I haven't seen anyone ridicule professional help when necessary. You'll have to give me examples.
My point is here on CD that those who are the most hostile and most heavily use pejoratives, also are the ones who ridicule and have disdain for therapy counseling and addiction recovery programs. Extremists and fanatics even when the problematic behavior is pointed out tend to rationalize justify defend even take pride in the problematic behavior.
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I think Tzaph is on -topic here. But One person's activist is another person's extremist. I regard myself as 'militant atheist', but because I am active. I would consider an atheist extremist one who causes vandalism and damage to religious property. Others consider atheists 'extremist' if they do anything more than hide in a corner.