The confusion about faith (scripture, demon, Universe, choice)
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This has already been proven false. I told you most recently "Yet again, I'm an atheist! (That means I don't believe in a god)"
As for why I'm defending theism to the degree that I do, I've explained that also. I don't think the theists do a good job of it usually. I think they're ill-equipped to deal with fallacious arguments such as the problem of evil et al., and I find anti-theism to be more or less a movement for bullies. And if you're going to convince me otherwise, the first thing I'll need to see is a cessation of personal attacks and trolling!
This has already been proven false. I told you most recently "Yet again, I'm an atheist! (That means I don't believe in a god)"
There are many ways to manipulate language so it appears to say one thing but doesn't really.
Technically, I could question "I don't believe in "a" god as an evasion which could be taken to mean you don't believe in some specific god, like the god of thunder, Thor.
Why are you so averse to simply stating...…
"I do not believe in any god"
Why are you so averse to simply stating...…
"I do not believe in any god"
I didn't know I had to spell that out for you. "I do not believe in a god" means "I do not believe in a single god". That includes the Christian god. I don't believe in any god. Or are you going to fault me for not putting "any" in italics?
ETA: How do you define "atheist"? I've yet to see anyone define it as "Someone who doesn't believe in the Christian god but might believe in another god". You guys are hilarious.
When someone refers to "gods" in the plural, it tells me that they don't even understand the basic idea of God as an average religious person does. Even children seem to have a real understanding of God, at least as religious people understand.
Quick, old_cold and Transponder, that guy's name is OzzyRules! He must be an atheist in disguise, because no real Christian could possibly like Ozzy amiright?
This has already been proven false. I told you most recently "Yet again, I'm an atheist! (That means I don't believe in a god)"
As for why I'm defending theism to the degree that I do, I've explained that also. I don't think the theists do a good job of it usually. I think they're ill-equipped to deal with fallacious arguments such as the problem of evil et al., and I find anti-theism to be more or less a movement for bullies. And if you're going to convince me otherwise, the first thing I'll need to see is a cessation of personal attacks and trolling!
That has already been shown a possible evasion. That you continue to play the evasion increases the suspicion. You know the simple one line you have to post to settle all doubts.
As to the rest, we are happy to substantiate our case, even if you restate the same conters again and again and again. And you can save the stuff about personal attacks and trloling. Christian apologists never hesitate to to play the martyr even when they haven't been attacked - only their arguments.
Philosophy is not Arq's strong suit. It requires a mode of thinking that is anathema to his concrete mind. He truly seems incapable of engaging in it. Contradicting theism requires engaging the very question they prefer to ignore using a default of "no God" for our inevitable ignorance about it and demanding "proof" of the existence of God. He ignores point#1 and evades point#2 by proclaiming it is only his belief there is no God. Yet he refuses to allow the theist the same privilege using belief there is a God despite the fact that they are BOTH just beliefs. It is a frustratingly lost cause that is no different than the one encountered engaging religious fundamentalists. Philosophy is simply NOT their intellectual venue.
Certainly the tinkering about with philosophical jargon, the reversal of logic and the repeated ignoring of all argument that does not suit him is certainly not what I do. yet i can clobber Mystic repeatedly (though he denies it) and I reckon I can deal with you, despite your fiddling of philosophical jargon (note the jiggery -pokery with 'Evidentialism). Mystic's habitual cheap put - downs harm his credibility, rather than mine.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Good points, especially the highlighted.
They are not good points, and the highlighted is the worst, because belief in a god is a claim that needs to be substantiated and non -belief in a god (not the "No God" crafty trick he pulls) does not (even though we can do it). Having a Philosophic mind (which in not the same as having a mind full of philosophic jargon) does Mystic no good when he slings basic logic out of the window in favour of his faith -based mindset.
I would rather have a logical, if concrete, mind.
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Originally Posted by OzzyRules
When someone refers to "gods" in the plural, it tells me that they don't even understand the basic idea of God as an average religious person does. Even children seem to have a real understanding of God, at least as religious people understand.
Of course they do. It means that they recognise that there are other god -beliefs and the Biblegod is not the only deity on the table.
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Originally Posted by Arach Angle
ozzy, they only do facts that support the "we fear religion so much we must do anything to stop it." there are no facts that don't help them in that. Tio them anyway. anymore than there are facts that show the fundy theist "err, no, that's not it."
Ozzy, Arach deals only in making up lies about atheists in order to support his demented prejudices. You will do yourself no credit by forming an alliance with him.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-04-2019 at 11:28 AM..
Quick, old_cold and Transponder, that guy's name is OzzyRules! He must be an atheist in disguise, because no real Christian could possibly like Ozzy amiright?
Don't be ridiculous. Ozzy at least has always been straight with us, and has never given us any reason to doubt his views. We have had some experience with Sheep in wolves' clothing and they can rarely disguise their mindset - which is yours. Faith -based.
It may be that you are are putting the Theist view so meticulously that we are fooled, but we think not. And you have still evaded saying the one line that would settle the matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
I didn't know I had to spell that out for you. "I do not believe in a god" means "I do not believe in a single god". That includes the Christian god. I don't believe in any god. Or are you going to fault me for not putting "any" in italics?
ETA: How do you define "atheist"? I've yet to see anyone define it as "Someone who doesn't believe in the Christian god but might believe in another god". You guys are hilarious.
Ok. There it is. That's all you had to say. You do not believe in any god, which makes you an atheist (1). But Jesus Christ, I have never seen one that played devils' advocate as devoutly as you do. or as badly.
And we are hilarious because you made a daft remark about atheism? Get real.
(1) yeah, you still be telling yourself that you have not denied belief in One specific God, but I will reckon that you have done enough to still the suspicions.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-04-2019 at 11:35 AM..
When someone refers to "gods" in the plural, it tells me that they don't even understand the basic idea of God as an average religious person does. Even children seem to have a real understanding of God, at least as religious people understand.
Clearly you are not Chinese. Otherwise you would have another view.
So once again you project your ignorance on to us.
belief in a god is a claim that needs to be substantiated and non -belief in a god (not the "No God" crafty trick he pulls) does not
Well first off, belief is not a claim. So it would be unreasonable to demand substantiation of either claim ("there is a god" or "there isn't a god") if someone merely believes these things. But secondly, there are indeed plenty of atheists (especially anti-theists) who've expressed both belief and the claim that god is a delusion, doesn't exist, etc. And those people have just as much a burden of proof as any theist claiming the opposite. This is magnified when the person is intolerant of the opposite view, and actively opposing it. They'd better have good reasons for doing so. And so far, the anti-theist, like the religious extremist, hasn't been able to give any.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Don't be ridiculous.
To me, the parody is only a bit more "ridiculous" than saying I'm a Christian because I defend theism against rabid internet anti-theists.
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We have had some experience with Sheep in wolves' clothing
And I've had some experience with anti-theists who cannot refute my arguments and so launch personal attacks on me instead.
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And you have still evaded saying the one line that would settle the matter.
No, you just keep lying and ignoring when I do. I do not believe in any gods. There it is again, for your ignoring pleasure.
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You do not believe in any god, which makes you an atheist
Lol, just as it meant "I do not believe in any gods" when I said "I'm an atheist"
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But Jesus Christ, I have never seen one that played devils' advocate as devoutly as you do.
What can I say, get off the internet every now and then and in the real world. Atheists are not typically anti-theists, nor do we typically agree with anti-theist views.
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Ozzy at least has always been straight with us, and has never given us any reason to doubt his views. We have had some experience with Sheep in wolves' clothing and they can rarely disguise their mindset - which is yours. Faith -based.
Ok. There it is. That's all you had to say. You do not believe in any god, which makes you an atheist (1). But Jesus Christ, I have never seen one that played devils' advocate as devoutly as you do. or as badly.
