Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-30-2019, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,213,258 times
Reputation: 16752

Advertisements

- - - - - -
● If the sovereign of life supports more abundant life, then those who seek to destroy life are in opposition.
● If the sovereign of the law of love opposes evil, then predators who follow the law of the jungle are in opposition.
● If the sovereign of the prosperous seeks prodigious production of surplus, then those who use money madness to stifle production, create poverty and suffering are in opposition.
- - - - - - -
Opinions and criticism welcome.


(*Money madness includes usury / interest, and gambling / underwriting)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-30-2019, 02:52 AM
 
9,690 posts, read 10,023,019 times
Reputation: 1927
The sovereign here sounds like the living sovereign God , and the opposition sounds like those in the world who oppose God
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2019, 04:16 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,738,332 times
Reputation: 5930
Sounds like that to me, too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2019, 04:33 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,587,667 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
- - - - - -
● If the sovereign of life supports more abundant life, then those who seek to destroy life are in opposition.
● If the sovereign of the law of love opposes evil, then predators who follow the law of the jungle are in opposition.
● If the sovereign of the prosperous seeks prodigious production of surplus, then those who use money madness to stifle production, create poverty and suffering are in opposition.
- - - - - - -
Opinions and criticism welcome.


(*Money madness includes usury / interest, and gambling / underwriting)

to general. it doesn't address what i call "logistics". basically get what we need done with what we have.

an artist can draw any number of buildings. many of the drawings are nothing less than awe inspiring. the only question I ask "with what we have, and the limits we exist under, it is the best we can build?"

"life is awe inspiring" yes, that position doesn't give us the right to hurt more people to save every single individual. basically, a dandelion is a life form, me weeding my lawn doesn't put me in opposition of life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2019, 05:22 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,069,223 times
Reputation: 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
- - - - - -
● If the sovereign of life supports more abundant life, then those who seek to destroy life are in opposition.
● If the sovereign of the law of love opposes evil, then predators who follow the law of the jungle are in opposition.
● If the sovereign of the prosperous seeks prodigious production of surplus, then those who use money madness to stifle production, create poverty and suffering are in opposition.
- - - - - - -
Opinions and criticism welcome.


(*Money madness includes usury / interest, and gambling / underwriting)
Lots of if's there. Here are somethings more to ponder.

1. If the sovereign is omnipotent or maxipotent, and truly supports more abundant life... nothing could stop or dent it (depending on the level of maxipotence).

2. If the sovereign is the ultimate creator and sustainer, then it bears ultimate responsibility to rule out the law of the jungle from existing immediately and better yet, retroactively. If it opposed evil, no evil could have ever been sustained in existence.

3. If the sovereign of the prosperous and successful is omniscient, then it would know exactly how to communicate and maintain a system where prodigious production of surpluses would never give way to money madness that would stifle production, create poverty, or increase suffering.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-30-2019, 06:54 PM
 
13,011 posts, read 13,052,712 times
Reputation: 21914
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Lots of if's there. Here are somethings more to ponder.

1. If the sovereign is omnipotent or maxipotent, and truly supports more abundant life... nothing could stop or dent it (depending on the level of maxipotence).

2. If the sovereign is the ultimate creator and sustainer, then it bears ultimate responsibility to rule out the law of the jungle from existing immediately and better yet, retroactively. If it opposed evil, no evil could have ever been sustained in existence.

3. If the sovereign of the prosperous and successful is omniscient, then it would know exactly how to communicate and maintain a system where prodigious production of surpluses would never give way to money madness that would stifle production, create poverty, or increase suffering.
I can add one more if.

If there is a sovereign of life, law and prosperity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2019, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,213,258 times
Reputation: 16752
Since the sovereign gave us free will, you cannot expect the sovereign to meddle.
It's up to us to oppose or support the goals.
Unless, you feel that the goals are evil....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2019, 06:11 AM
 
13,011 posts, read 13,052,712 times
Reputation: 21914
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Since the sovereign gave us free will, you cannot expect the sovereign to meddle.
It's up to us to oppose or support the goals.
Unless, you feel that the goals are evil....
More unsupported assertions.

You have not shown that a sovereign of anything exists, you have not shown that the things you list in your OP are that sovereign’s goals, and now you have added several more.

Please show that we have free will, or that said free will was granted by your (as yet unproven) god. Show us that meddling by your god interferes with free will, or that your god wants us to support his (as yet unproven) goals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-01-2019, 06:52 AM
 
Location: USA
17,161 posts, read 11,397,293 times
Reputation: 2378
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
- - - - - -
● If the sovereign of life supports more abundant life, then those who seek to destroy life are in opposition.
● If the sovereign of the law of love opposes evil, then predators who follow the law of the jungle are in opposition.
● If the sovereign of the prosperous seeks prodigious production of surplus, then those who use money madness to stifle production, create poverty and suffering are in opposition.
- - - - - - -
Opinions and criticism welcome.


(*Money madness includes usury / interest, and gambling / underwriting)
If those are your beliefs about “the sovereign”, then your conclusions seem to me to be in line with those beliefs. So, live with integrity: Don’t destroy life, don’t be a predator, and don’t use money to stifle production, or create poverty or suffering.

Better yet, think how you, yourself, can actively put those principles into practice in positive ways in your own life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2019, 07:26 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,069,223 times
Reputation: 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
Since the sovereign gave us free will, you cannot expect the sovereign to meddle.
It's up to us to oppose or support the goals.
Unless, you feel that the goals are evil....
I allow my children free will. And I meddle. Calves have free will, and cows meddle. I allow my elderly parents free-will, and I meddle. I allow my friends free will, and I meddle. I allow my rumba free will, and I meddle. What is a miracle? What is an intervention?

And lowered expectations for a sovereign?

Does your imagined sovereign not have free will for themselves? If they did, then they can do anything that they can do. If they are omnipotent (as Zeus was described), then they can do anything imaginable.

Free-will is only a barrier when it is made as such, otherwise, it can only be freeing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top