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The thread veered over to 'did Jesus survive the cross and and how or why', from 'did Jesus descend from the Canaanites'. I'll sort of ask a question at this point: if it can be shown as I have done that Jesus' father is not Yahweh, but rather Ba'al, Asherah and El, would that disqualify Jesus as the Messiah?
No, people who read and actually THINK would see the "not" as showing a difference between the two classes: what is a misrepresentation and what is religious forms that really have no bearing on what Jesus taught. Did you miss the point about objecting to "misrepresentations?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
It's an easy mistake, seeing as how you usually are ranting about those that don't agree with you.
This is nothing new. I have here a book that my father used 40+ years ago on the Old Testament, for a course he took at an historic Presbyterian university (University of Tulsa). Liberal Protestants don't accept the OT narrative at face value, but they still see value in following Jesus.
Consequently, their ideas about God are very different as well from Protestant fundamentalists, who tend to believe in an anthropomorphic deity: Schleiermacher, the grandfather of Protestant liberalism, seems to harken back to Neo-Platonism in understanding God, and you will find alot of Jungian types in some mainline churches as well.
I wonder how they manage with all the references to the OT that their man-god Jesus made.
We see that a lot of parrying was done by Jesus with the religious authorities of the day using their own holy writ. The use of quotes from the "OT" against those who revered it in no way leaps to the acceptance of every word in the OT as truth.
Judaism is a religion. Biblical Israel is a culture. Jewish people modeled their religion after the culture of Biblical Israel. They are not the same people.
Well the Bible states there were Israelites that intermarried with the Canaanites and many Jews became Polytheists. Here is scripture that states this: “The people of Israel and the priests and the Levites have not separated themselves from the peoples of the lands with their abominations, from the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. For they have taken some of their daughters to be wives for themselves and for their sons, so that the holy race has mixed itself with the peoples of the lands. And in this faithlessness the hand of the officials and chief men has been foremost (Ezra 9:1-3).
In fact there were Kings of Israel and Judah were pagans just like the Canaanites. Also the Israelites according to the Bible could not conquer all the people there, even though God promised them they will have it. According to the bible, it was Israel disobedience on why they could not conquer all that God promised them. Then the angel of the Lord came to Gilgal to Bochim, and said: I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you. And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars. But you have not obeyed my voice. Why have you done this? Therefore I also said, I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you (Judges 2:1-3).
I see the OP claiming the Bible false however even within the bible the Israelites did at times in their history practice paganism in the land of Cannan and did adapt to the cultural practices of the Canaanites there.
Anyway, a lot of Jews believe in that part of the Bible but they don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah. They are now awaiting a messiah to save them.
"Jews" are not Israelites. I believe this is why you guys are having problems. The Bible is the story of the Israelites. The Israelites were to serve as an example to the pagans. They intermarried with many people but they were NOT to take on their ways. This is where they erred. I don't know the origins of the Jews but since they took part of the name of Judah, I am going to assume they began their religion around the time of Israelite upheaval. Perhaps the exile of Judah, which would be a convenient time to take on their name, and would also explain why they don't particularly care for Jesus. Jesus was not a Canaanite. Only Levites could be priests. This is made very clear in the OT. If you guys just want something to debate about, fine. But knowing the rules for Levite priests debunks the OP pretty quickly.
Also keep in mind, prophets are only sent when the Israelites are in trouble. So Israelite history predates Moses and Genesis. The Bible is only the Bible because multiple texts were combined in one book. God didn't say "Hey, here's a Bible of your history!" Man created the Bible.
We see that a lot of parrying was done by Jesus with the religious authorities of the day using their own holy writ. The use of quotes from the "OT" against those who revered it in no way leaps to the acceptance of every word in the OT as truth.
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