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One Time The Angel of God Came Every day In Person & Taught Me Many Things. Then One Day The Angel Did Not Appear & My Heart Broke Into A Million Pieces. I Fell On My Knees & Asked The Angel To Give Me A Sign That He Was Still Watching Over Me, & Instantly The Calm Sky Above Me Exploded With Deafening Thunder. Science Would Say It Is Nothing, Because They Were Not There. Yet There Is A God Who Hears Us & You Can Always Talk To God & Know He Is Listening.
The same thing happened to Muhammad...according to Muhammad.
Wikipedia
Muhammad
Beginnings of the Quran
The cave Hira in the mountain Jabal al-Nour where, according to Muslim belief, Muhammad received his first revelation.
Muhammad began to pray alone in a cave named Hira on Mount Jabal al-Nour, near Mecca for several weeks every year.Islamic tradition holds that during one of his visits to that cave, in the year 610 the angel Gabriel appeared to him and commanded Muhammad to recite verses that would be included in the Quran. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
Especially when you have important questions to ask him about the City Data Atheists and their lives.
Hey can you ask him: my front door is sticking with the humidity. Should I wax it or get a carpenter in?
Hopefully you'll get a response, since it's Thursday where you are, and God is at a loose end.
I just prayed to God & Asked If He Had Anything To Say To You Atheists. GOD Replied: "You Mock God Now, But Later You Will Ask God For Kindness & Mercy When You Need Help".
Does God always talk about himself in the third person?
I am not sure many Christians would have chosen you to be their champion. But until other Christians decide to man up, you represent the defender of the faith.
Maybe the rest of us doubt your ability or desire to have a serious, moderated discussion. Or for that matter, pretty much any non-Christian on this forum.
The answer is that there is not "one core". Many Christians do think that about the resurrection and other Biblical "impossibilities". Not the fundamentalists/Bible literalists, of course.
I've posted this before, but a woman who was a deacon in my church once and who remains a friend of mine said that if you proved to her tomorrow beyond the shadow of a doubt that Jesus never existed, it would not change the core of her faith. By the way, her husband is a Brit-born atheist Jew (name is Christopher, which should give you a clue about just how devout his Jewish parents must have been ) and he attended the church occasionally while she was in service there. We all really like him, and he was welcome there.
It is the difference between a church that functions on "Right Belief" and one that looks for meaning that can be applied to real life, with "whether it actually happened" not being the main focus. For example, during the time I took the theological study course for laity put out by the Episcopal seminary, in the New Testament year, we discussed the gospels. In the story of the loaves and fishes, an impossibility wherein a small amount of food supposedly fed thousands, one participant said that she always read that story as a metaphor for sharing love and compassion. One passes compassion to another, who passes it to another, and it grows and "feeds" far more than seemed possible at the beginning through the actions of many that began with a few. Her take makes gives the story a deeper meaning it didn't have when it was presented as just a miracle/magic trick.
It's funny, I was thinking today that if the historical claims about Christianity were removed how would it change things. I'm not interested in carrying the whole "theistic" part of any debate, but here's my take on it as a religious person: The way I see it all of religion is myth, and that does not make it untrue. It may or may not be mixed with historical fact, but fact isn't necessary. Being a myth makes a religion true as relating to spiritual matters, or matters relating to finding meaning in existence, but not other matters. I don't mean myth as in something being a lie, but a story designed to teach some kind of deep or universal truth. Santa Claus is simply a fiction, not a myth, because there is no deeper truth there. Another myth, like the dying and rising deity, actually teaches something beyond the ordinary that humans have found value in across time and culture.
The Jesus story claims to be historical, and many Christians base their whole faith on that. I happen to have taken a leap of faith in that regard, so I believe too, but I don't care if it isn't true historically. What is true for me is the idea that self-sacrificing love overcomes death. Obviously, I'm speaking of death on a spiritual level. Saviors dying and being resurrected are a theme elsewhere besides Christianity. Resurrection is a theme in nature, as one thing dies and becomes another. It seems obvious to me that a person has to in some way die to their selfish vain interests in order to grow and live fully. Beyond that, I base my faith on experiences I have had that have made me feel that there is more than the material, but obviously I can't prove that nor do I try to.
So to answer the original question from the OP, what case is there to be made: the case is that the story of a resurrected savior communicates a deep truth that has appeared in many cultures before, and if adopted as a way of life (the way of selfless love and forgiveness) will be spiritually life giving. The Santa Claus story does not do this. However, if someone wants to adopt all of the teachings attributed to Jesus, but just take out the supernatural and deity parts, like some secular ethicists do, that can have the same effect, but that's a whole different discussion.
I'm going to guess that my views will run on the wrong side of conservative religious people as well as atheists
I wonder how many Christians actually do believe it?
I wonder if actually, they have never really thought about it too hard, and just accepted it.
And if they did stop to think about the impossibility of
a. Being raised from the dead and
b. Rising up into the sky,
they would maybe put it down to just being a metaphor or allegory?
I'll be honest, and at the risk if digressing, I'm not sure what the core of Christian belief is these days.
Sorry if I'm wide of the mark in answering your question.
Christians prefer to sanitize the story by referring to it as the "resurrection," and the "ascension." That is somehow considered believable. Referring to "the flying reanimated corpse of Jesus" is considered to be offensive, or even blasphemous. This despite the fact that it describes the same claim.
Maybe the rest of us doubt your ability or desire to have a serious, moderated discussion. Or for that matter, pretty much any non-Christian on this forum.
What do you consider a "serious" discussion? You preach, I meekly listen? I am ready and willing to debate your claims, point by point and in great detail. How much more serious do you want?
No one left reports of seeing Jesus do extraordinary things while he was alive. The reports that have come down to us all date from decades after Jesus was supposed to have been executed. ...
so on this, 'it couldn't have happened because it wasn't written down immediately' is your logic?
Maybe they did & the originals long lost/decayed/destroyed along w/destruction of Jerasulam?
Maybe they DIDN'T even initially write it down due to fear of persecution (which actually happened) AND expectation that HE was to return soon hence no need to 'archive' it.
They certainly DID leave ORAL TRADITION, which was the common and a much more expected method for the period, often in secret behind locked doors & not in the open especially in light of the early persistent persecution. Even then, many that DID witness then, still didn't believe - that's documented too!
There was a huge dead beetle type bug next to our front door for weeks just lying there dried out with its feet in the air. Then one day I read a book where Jesus gives the instructions on how to Raise The Dead. I went back home & when I got to the front door & saw the dead bug I commanded it to come back to life. It instantly came back to life & ran away. So belief is a strong thing indeed.
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