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Sort of simplified, "Do as I say, not as I do"? command?
Exactly, and in a nutshell. It implies that the morality given to us is a morality that does not apply to God at all. I don't know whether you remember Vic, but he argued that everything that God did, no matter how bad, was ok because it was all part of the plan that was ultimately good.
This still leaves us with a morality that is nothing to do with God's morality so calling him Good and Just is meaningless because it's entirely on his own terms and nothing to do with the morality we use.
Which is of course what humanist morality has been saying for some time - we use human morality and God's morality is no morality at all.
Have you already felt the effect of my prayers for you? I told you to tell me as soon as you started feeling it. Can you try to estimate the day and time that you think you felt something? That would be a big help. Thanks.
Is it really wrong of me to care more about your eternity than you do?
I've felt nothing except growing disdain for your attitude.
It is wrong for you to meddle in other people's lives. Wrong.
Now they are all in heaven together. Along with the soldiers that committed the atrocities, as well as the religious leaders that were responsible for ordering these sorts of atrocities.
If the God of the Bible exists He is a psychotic ogre.
Now you have justified hacking children and babies to death with swords. You are an example of why religion is a dangerous form of insanity that must be opposed.
So I should make no moral judgement on hacking children to death, or blowing them up with bombs, or flying airplanes into buildings, so long as these acts can be justified as the will of God?
Re-read the account of the massacre of the Waldensian's by Christian soldiers, an actual historical event that actually occurred in 1655.
Wikipedia
Waldensian's
"Little children were torn from the arms of their mothers, clasped by their tiny feet, and their heads dashed against the rocks; or were held between two soldiers and their quivering limbs torn up by main force. Their mangled bodies were then thrown on the highways or fields, to be devoured by beasts. The sick and the aged were burned alive in their dwellings. Some had their hands and arms and legs lopped off, and fire applied to the severed parts to staunch the bleeding and prolong their suffering. Some were flayed alive, some were roasted alive, some disemboweled; or tied to trees in their own orchards, and their hearts cut out. Some were horribly mutilated, and of others the brains were boiled and eaten by these cannibals. Some were fastened down into the furrows of their own fields, and ploughed into the soil as men plough manure into it. Others were buried alive. Fathers were marched to death with the heads of their sons suspended round their necks. Parents were compelled to look on while their children were first outraged [raped], then massacred, before being themselves permitted to die."
And yet according to you as a non believer I have no basis for making judgments about morality.
But I DO make judgements on morality. And I judge religions to be a form of, and cause of, a type of insanity that is an ongoing threat to all mankind.
Let's hold hands and walk through some logic together...
A. If God does not exist, then there is no objective standard for human morality. You can go on about your moral judgement, but without any reference to a God who created us humans, you are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to your moral judgements being meaningless if morality is relative. The infanticide practiced by the Greeks of antiquity, for instance, did not violate their customs. If you were a Greek living at that time, you wouldn't necessarily see anything wrong with infanticide, either.
B. If God does exist, you have displayed utter hubris in positioning yourself as a judge of God's actions. I dare say such hubris will not go unpunished.
Last edited by Iwasmadenew; 10-04-2019 at 03:30 PM..
Let's hold hands and walk through some logic together...
A. If God does not exist, then there is no objective standard for human morality. You can go on about your moral judgement, but without any reference to a God who created us humans, you are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to your moral judgements being meaningless if morality is relative. The infanticide practiced by the Greeks of antiquity, for instance, did not violate their customs. If you were a Greek living at that time, you wouldn't necessarily see anything wrong with infanticide, either.
B. If God does exist, you have displayed utter hubris in positioning yourself as a judge of God's actions. I dare say such hubris will not go unpunished.
You guys keep feeding it and this is what it excretes.
You are becoming unhinged again, Harry. Deep breaths, relax.
I resaved my existing status text in case that fixed why it wasn’t showing up. I haven’t changed it for quite some time. Now I see that my entire status history has been erased. Seems someone has been monkeying with my profile without my permission. Not a surprise on this forum, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
"Paranoia strikes deep...into your life it will creep...."
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
And how exactly does someone do that?
Moderator accounts can't do that. Senior Moderators and Administrators would have to do it. They wouldn't bother.
Let's hold hands and walk through some logic together...
A. If God does not exist, then there is no objective standard for human morality. You can go on about your moral judgement, but without any reference to a God who created us humans, you are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to your moral judgements being meaningless if morality is relative. The infanticide practiced by the Greeks of antiquity, for instance, did not violate their customs. If you were a Greek living at that time, you wouldn't necessarily see anything wrong with infanticide, either.
There is NO objective standard of morality. Which is why the God of the Bible is implicated in genocide, and in condoning slavery. There is only a practical standard of morality that resists justifying cold methodical murder, and the enslaving of fellow humans, in an attempt to elevate and better the human condition. If seeking to facilitate this practical standard of morality means standing up and pointing fingers at the insanity that is religion, then standing up and pointing fingers at the insanity that is religion is long overdue.
Here is my basis for morality derived from thin air.
Do not do to others that which you would not want others to do to you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwasmadenew
B. If God does exist, you have displayed utter hubris in positioning yourself as a judge of God's actions. I dare say such hubris will not go unpunished.
If God exists He knows where to find me. But he seems to have been content to wait for me to get old.
You can take comfort in knowing that God is REALLY going to paddle my behind once I am dead.
Last edited by Tired of the Nonsense; 10-04-2019 at 04:30 PM..
Let's hold hands and walk through some logic together...
A. If God does not exist, then there is no objective standard for human morality. You can go on about your moral judgement, but without any reference to a God who created us humans, you are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to your moral judgements being meaningless if morality is relative. The infanticide practiced by the Greeks of antiquity, for instance, did not violate their customs. If you were a Greek living at that time, you wouldn't necessarily see anything wrong with infanticide, either.
B. If God does exist, you have displayed utter hubris in positioning yourself as a judge of God's actions. I dare say such hubris will not go unpunished.
A. Nonsense. Buddhist countries have a basis for morality that does not involve god. Hindu nations have a basis for morality that does not involve YOUR god. Those are just two examples.
B. But confirming that much of the basis of christianity is not love, but punishment.
There is NO objective standard of morality. Which is why the God of the Bible is implicated in genocide, and in condoning slavery. There is only a practical standard of morality that resists justifying cold methodical murder, and the enslaving of fellow humans, in an attempt to elevate and better the human condition. If seeking to facilitate this practical standard of morality means standing up and pointing fingers at the insanity that is religion, then standing up and pointing fingers at the insanity that is religion is long overdue.
Here is my basis for morality derived from thin air.
Do not do to others that which you would not want others to do to you!
And love God with all your heart! Yes, that's right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense
If God exists He knows where to find me. But he seems to have been content to wait for me to get old.
You can take comfort in knowing that God is REALLY going to paddle my behind once I am dead.
No! If I took comfort in that I would make zero effort to warn you. I wouldn't do anything that might change your course.
It has to be you that wants it, though. I understand that I'm likely wasting time. All I can do is try to get through to you that if you're still breathing you have a limited-tiime opportunity to change your fate. But you'd have to be humble and repent. I think that would be difficult for you to do, but don't let your pride be what ultimately condemns you. Don't let the opinions of others influence your decisions. You'll be standing alone on that day.
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