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Yet he makes cakes for weddings on a regular basis... Therefore, he wasn't refusing to make a cake for a wedding, he was refusing to make it for a gay couple. It seems to be you having the issues here.
Operating a business has no bearing on your free practice of religion... Are you daft? Operating a business is in the public sector, and religious or not, you have to follow laws. You don't get special provisions for following a certain holy book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
The fact that you assumed motive of bigotry instead of moral conviction That's dishonest. You have ignored what has been stated many times and instead choose to restate it dishonestly.
The motive is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. If my religion tells me I can't serve black people, and I turn them away, I am still a racist moron. Bigotry is bigotry, whether you do it because you are religious or not, moral convictions or not, is quite irrelevant.
Have you heard the phrase, "Ignorance is no excuse"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
No one is doing that. You are dishonestly accusing people of it.
Clearly, you are.... You have said so, several times. Moderator cut: insulting a poster's mental capabilities not allowed You have said that Christian people should be able to refuse service to gay people, because of their "moral convictions". That is saying that Christians should have a free pass to ignore anti-discrimination laws, and be free from consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
No one is saying that. Again, you are dishonestly stating that.
Really, you haven't said that people should be able to refuse service if it goes against their values? Now who is lying, BF?
Still haven't answered my question though... Why can't I discriminate against black people or Hispanics or Muslims, if it is against my religion? Why does only those that you agree with get the free pass? Why only Christians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Discrimination requires people actually being discriminated against. You have repeatedly falsely misrepresented this.
And you seem incapable of elementary level logic. Here, I'll help you, in baby terms.
The baker makes wedding cakes for straight people.
The baker refuses to make wedding cakes for gay people.
By doing so, they are clearly discriminating against ONLY gay couples.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 08-27-2019 at 04:33 PM..
Reason: TOS
Right. If it was for the wedding. The wedding is the key part.
Except making a cake has no bearing on the wedding. It is your job to make cakes, not determine when or where they are used. It is not participating in the wedding either...
That is like saying they are participating in adultery when it is someone's (like Kim Davis) 3rd wedding. Or like turning away someone of a different religion, because you can't take part in a Hindu ceremony by making a cake. The dumbest argument known to man.
I'm sorry. The fact that you are simply unable to understand the difference between a same sex wedding and a hetero wedding must be some kind of mental hiccup with you or something.
Again, the wedding is irrelevant. You aren't going to the wedding or participating in the wedding by making a cake... You are making a cake... Again, only a small minded, ignorant, and childish bigot would even think this way.
Oh, and all the while making cakes for adulterous couples and 3rd weddings... Hypocrites.
The funny thing about that is that the only time I've personally witnessed anyone trying to prevent a religious group from practicing their religion was when several christian churches tried to manipulate zoning laws to prevent Buddhist temples from being built in neighborhoods where there were already christian churches.
Same here, phetaroi. In Memphis, a local Buddhist was trying to put up a statue in his front yard, and the local churches all banned together to try and stop it. That was on the guys' own property, and in no way hurt the local churches or Christians. They are hypocrites. Each and every one.
Operating a business has no bearing on your free practice of religion... Are you daft? Operating a business is in the public sector, and religious or not, you have to follow laws. You don't get special provisions for following a certain holy book.
No one is suggesting that anyone discriminate against a protected class. To suggest that is to continue to demonstrate a lack of integrity in attempting to understand the issue.
Quote:
The motive is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. If my religion tells me I can't serve black people, and I turn them away, I am still a racist moron. Bigotry is bigotry, whether you do it because you are religious or not, moral convictions or not, is quite irrelevant.
Have you heard the phrase, "Ignorance is no excuse"?
Again, please see above comment.
Quote:
Clearly, you are.... You have said so, several times. Do you have dementia or something? You have said that Christian people should be able to refuse service to gay people, because of their "moral convictions". That is saying that Christians should have a free pass to ignore anti-discrimination laws, and be free from consequences.
Please produce the quote of me saying that. I've said the baker should be able to refuse to cater a wedding, or bake a cake for a wedding. That is different than discriminating against gay people.
Do you have some kind of intellectual difficulty understanding the difference?
Quote:
Really, you haven't said that people should be able to refuse service if it goes against their values? Now who is lying, BF?
Still haven't answered my question though... Why can't I discriminate against black people or Hispanics or Muslims, if it is against my religion? Why does only those that you agree with get the free pass? Why only Christians?
Again, to discriminate against a race is to violate a law, and it's racist.
But that isn't happening here.
Quote:
And you seem incapable of elementary level logic. Here, I'll help you, in baby terms.
The baker makes wedding cakes for straight people.
The baker refuses to make wedding cakes for gay people.
By doing so, they are clearly discriminating against ONLY gay couples.
And you seem to be incapable of understanding basic elementary logic.
The baker makes wedding cakes.
The baker refuses to make wedding cakes for a ceremony he has a moral and religious objection to.
It's quite simple. To continue to bang that drum shows a complete dishonesty on your part.
I'm sorry. The fact that you are simply unable to understand the difference between a same sex wedding and a hetero wedding must be some kind of mental hiccup with you or something.
I understand the difference. The people getting married. And if a person refuses service based upon the people involved, it is discrimination.
I'm sorry, I'm probably thinking of another issue of someone in the LGBT----- lobby trying to destroy a man's life.
Bottom line is, there are other businesses they could have gone to. Why not live and let live instead of all this victim mentality?
Maybe if the baker hadn't insulted both the lesbian and her mother while in his store they were both insulted by him. Then he attacked them on social media due to them filing a discrimination complaint against him. If you read the judgement against the baker it was primarily for insulting the women on line and publishing the names and addresses of the complaints. I guess this is the Christian live and let live, refuse service, insult the customers and then have an online campaign against them?
I think there are two issues that you disagree with
1) the public having any right to set into a business open for business, you regret the civil rights laws, nit because the blacks got the right to serve but because you think it is right for businesses to be bigoted as much as they wish
2) I don't think you believe that gays should have equal rights
In the Oregon case you are defending your Christians being able to insult, refuse service illegally and to bully on line but that the lesbian and her mother are the ones who need to shut up and take the insults, the on line harassment and accept that they are not to be protected under the law that specifically gives them protection.
Just who was the bully in this case? Who made their names and addresses public? Who violated Oregon law? Who didn't live and let live but decided he had to both preach and insult while refusing service?
The judgement is on line for any to read. The baker did much more than say no about the cake. BaptistFundie you are supporting the person who does not believe in the live and let live only because he is an anti gay Christian.
I do not support that baker however I also don't agree with the cases of LBGT folks going across country targeting bakers that are already known for refusing service. Or the anti gay jokers going to gay run cookie shops ordering an anti gay wedding cake from cookie shops that do not even make cakes, let alone wedding cakes.
The lesbians in Oregon did find another bakery that gladly baked them a cake. But they did try the one that their mother was happy with first.
No one is suggesting that anyone discriminate against a protected class. To suggest that is to continue to demonstrate a lack of integrity in attempting to understand the issue.
<<snip>>
You said: "No one is suggesting that anyone discriminate against a protected class."
Aren't you aware by now that sexual orientation is a protected class in Oregon?
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