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Well other truer xians believe god and Jesus are one and the same, no?
So there are "true" Christians and "truer" Christians, now? Did you want to discuss the Trinity doctrine? I'm game, but this probably isn't the right thread to do that on. Incidentally, Mormons do believe that Jesus Christ is God. We just don't believe that He's His own Father.
It's what you do, and I have seen it before. And I have explained exactly how you did it here. I don't want to flame you Katz. I have a lot of respect for you, but you do apologetics, and that involved evasion (as I set out clearly above) wriggling (as in your efforts to explain away a lack of Jewish DNA in central americans) and before that the Abraham papyrus where you used the 'inspired substance of translation' excuse for it being NOT what is in the papyrus and later declared you couldn't even remember the debate.
We're not going there, Transponder. That thread is ancient history. I'm sorry you didn't like my answers, but that doesn't mean I evaded your questions. When I don't know the answers, I say so. I don't make things up and I don't pretend to have expertise that I don't have.
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Whether or not you see it, the curious difference between a corporeal race of Gd -family persons (which does seem to be LDS teaching) and the Theological Dogmas of Christianity is a factor that others will see, even if you slide around it.
Of course there's a difference. I don't deny that at all! All I am asking of people is that that stick to what the differences actually are instead of embellishing LDS theology in order to make a point.
So there are "true" Christians and "truer" Christians, now? Did you want to discuss the Trinity doctrine? I'm game, but this probably isn't the right thread to do that on. Incidentally, Mormons do believe that Jesus Christ is God. We just don't believe that He's His own Father.
For starters, we've never "banned" any reading materials or media. And, no, this isn't really part of the "Mormon" (it's Mormon, not Morman) religion. It's a cartoon intended to parody our beliefs, to misrepresent them and to make them appear shocking and outlandish. I just watched the entire video again. It is truly the product of a pathetic mind. I'd say it was about 97% inaccurate.
Here's what I mean. Many people know that Catholics believe in the doctrine of "Transubstantiation." This doctrine states that the Eucharistic elements (i.e. the bread and wine) are actually transformed into the literal body and blood of Christ at consecration, and that they only continue to appear to be bread and wine. If this video were about Catholicism, it would show a table upon which a deceased Jesus is laid out. A group of people would be sitting around that table partying, cutting off portions of Jesus' flesh and eating them, and lapping up His blood as it spilled onto the table. Is such a teaching really part of the Catholic religion? Well, Transubstantiation is, but the practice as depicted in the video is a far cry from the practice as it actually takes place in Catholic churches around the world. If I were Catholic, I would find such a depiction of something I believed to be disgusting, inappropriate and quite frankly, inaccurate.
Thank you for the message. I am sure that Mormans out there don't agree with the video. However not all Morman's believe in the same things about the religion. Just like Protestants and Catholics out there don't agree with each other with the concept of the Virgin Mary.
Thank you for the message. I am sure that Mormans out there don't agree with the video. However not all Morman's believe in the same things about the religion. Just like Protestants and Catholics out there don't agree with each other with the concept of the Virgin Mary.
It's Mormons, not Mormans. And you're right; no two people of any religion have identical beliefs about every doctrine that is part of their religious background. But I can state with firm conviction that well over 99% of all Mormons would agree with no more than about 3% of what is shown and said in that video. I'd say maybe a quarter of the video loosely resembles Mormon doctrine, but when you have one statement of truth both preceded and followed by a half a dozen half-truths and lies, it's hard to focus on the one truth. I somehow doubt that you believe me, but there's nothing I can do about that.
We're not going there, Transponder. That thread is ancient history. I'm sorry you didn't like my answers, but that doesn't mean I evaded your questions. When I don't know the answers, I say so. I don't make things up and I don't pretend to have expertise that I don't have.
I can remember pretty clearly how the arguments went. It wasn't a case of 'don't like they answers'. It was a a lack of answers.
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Of course there's a difference. I don't deny that at all! All I am asking of people is that that stick to what the differences actually are instead of embellishing LDS theology in order to make a point.
The last thing I want is to 'embellish' LDS Theology. Nor to dismiss it when it causes awkward questions. The fact is that a solid body God with a wife and family is not going to fit with orthodox Christianity. I'm not saying that either side has it right (as an atheist i have reservations about both claims) but it is a problem for Christianity accepting the LDS as just another denomination of Christianity.
There's a handy little talk here about this problem
Now for me, I consider Mormons Christians in that they believe a lot of the same things. But this little exposition (saying what they believe, which i might not, anyway, for instance quoting epistles by Jude as though they were God's own truth) explains why Mainstream Christianity has a problem with the LDS teachings.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-03-2019 at 07:52 AM..
I can remember pretty clearly how the arguments went. It wasn't a case of 'don't like they answers'. It was a lack of answers.
It was a very good explanation of why the answers you were looking for aren't readily available.
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The last thing I want is to 'embellish' LDS Theology. Nor to dismiss it when it causes awkward questions.
I wasn't suggesting that you were embellishing it, but that the video did.
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The fact is that a solid body God with a wife and family is not going to fit with orthodox Christianity. I'm not saying that either side has it right (as an atheist i have reservations about both claims) but it is a problem for Christianity accepting the LDS as just another denomination of Christianity.
I don't see how God having a body or not having a body really changes the message of Christianity, but clearly for some people it does.
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There's a handy little talk here about this problem
Now for me, I consider Mormons Christians in that they believe a lot of the same things. But this little exposition (saying what they believe, which i might not, anyway, for instance quoting epistles by Jude as though they were God's own truth) explains why Mainstream Christianity has a problem with the LDS teachings.
Let me watch the entire talk and get back to you. I've got to go down to the Salt Lake Metro jail to teach Sunday School, so I won't be able to get into this until later today. I watched about a third of it, though, and found even that much of it to be fraught with numerous logical fallacies. It was at least better presented than the silly little cartoon posted by the OP. I think I'll actually be able to address the issues I see with it and explain why I think the speaker is wrong. (Like certain posters here, he seems to think he has the right to say, "If you interpret the scriptures differently than I do, you're not a Christian.") You may not be interested in the theological reasons why I think he's wrong in what he's saying, but others on the forum might be. So, I'll get started with it later today.
Last edited by Katzpur; 11-03-2019 at 08:15 AM..
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