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It appears that even supposed devout Christians lack the courage of their convictions.
This question was posed in another string:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense
Matthew 27:
62] Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
[64] Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
According to the Gospels and Acts, exactly what the chief priests and Pharisees feared would happen is exactly what occurred. The tomb proved to be empty and the disciples began spreading the story that Jesus had risen from the dead.
This then is a very simple and obvious question. Why is the origin of the Christian movement unlikely to be as a result of actions taken by the followers of Jesus after his death, and more likely to be the result of the corpse of Jesus returning to life and subsequently flying off into the sky?
Which of these possibilities best conforms to reason, logic and common sense? Anybody?
Only one believer stepped forward in response. And then even that person disappeared without a follow up response.
Are there NO Christian believers with the courage of their convictions willing to step forward and defend what the say they believe in? And if no Christians are willing to step forward, does that not serve to explain the rapid statistical evaporation of belief in Christianity that is occurring?
Belief in Christianity has been falling at a rate of about 1% per year since the beginning of the 21st century. Could one problem be that even supposed Christian believers lack certainty in the efficacy of their beliefs?
It appears that even supposed devout Christians lack the courage of their convictions.
This question was posed in another string:
Only one believer stepped forward in response. And then even that person disappeared without a follow up response.
Are there NO Christian believers with the courage of their convictions willing to step forward and defend what the say they believe in? And if no Christians are willing to step forward, does that not serve to explain the rapid statistical evaporation of belief in Christianity that is occurring?
Belief in Christianity has been falling at a rate of about 1% per year since the beginning of the 21st century. Could one problem be that even supposed Christian believers lack certainty in the efficacy of their beliefs?
Your taunting aside..what exactly is your question? About the resurrection?
Your taunting aside..what exactly is your question? About the resurrection?
Could I have made it any more clear?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense
Matthew 27:
62] Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
[63] Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
[64] Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
According to the Gospels and Acts, exactly what the chief priests and Pharisees feared would happen is exactly what occurred. The tomb proved to be empty and the disciples began spreading the story that Jesus had risen from the dead.
This then is a very simple and obvious question. Why is the origin of the Christian movement unlikely to be as a result of actions taken by the followers of Jesus after his death, and more likely to be the result of the corpse of Jesus returning to life and subsequently flying off into the sky?
Which of these possibilities best conforms to reason, logic and common sense? Anybody?
Christian Defenders of the Faith. Are There Any Left?
Definitely. Check out Mike555's posts. You won't find a more vociferous apologist than him. I think even Richard Carrier would shudder at the thought of debating Mike.
1. People actually saw Jesus alive after he rose.
2. An entire religion grew as a result of it.
We can go into all the details and talk about how the guards prevented followers from stealing the body. We can talk about how hard all of that would have been. But the biggest proof to me is the movement that started after people saw him alive.
It appears that even supposed devout Christians lack the courage of their convictions.
This question was posed in another string:
Only one believer stepped forward in response. And then even that person disappeared without a follow up response.
Are there NO Christian believers with the courage of their convictions willing to step forward and defend what the say they believe in? And if no Christians are willing to step forward, does that not serve to explain the rapid statistical evaporation of belief in Christianity that is occurring?
Belief in Christianity has been falling at a rate of about 1% per year since the beginning of the 21st century. Could one problem be that even supposed Christian believers lack certainty in the efficacy of their beliefs?
Maybe more and more Christians are being educated to learn that most everything they have been taught is a lie.
This is the reason I can quote so much of the New Testament that contradicts what the average Christian believes. I can quote Jesus in many places and watch Christians try to explain why Jesus was wrong, in fact, all the Christians I see, they spend their time trying to prove how Jesus could not have been the Messiah. Since the Christian wont study the religion of Jesus, they don't know the law and the prophets, along with the very narrow path Jesus had to walk if he was to fulfill the laws and propheies. Today, rather than a Christian defending Christ, it is ALWAYS a Christian proving Christ wrong, proving to every Jew just how big a sinner Jesus was. Christians present a lawless, pagan Jew who was the biggest traitor to his people Israel there has ever been, and then we have 2000 years of the followers of Jesus persecuting and killing anyone who practiced the same religion Jesus practiced. The followers of Jesus make Jesus the most horrible traitor there has ever been in any nation.
As if Jesus was the anti Christ coming to fulfill all the proohesies of Anti Christ because the followers of Jesus are anti Christ. They seek to change the times and seasons and did. They speak against the holy city and the saints of God who love his commandments, they hate, despise and persecute Jesus own family, and anyone who would practice the same religion Jesus loved and practiced,'' Judaism.''
It appears that even supposed devout Christians lack the courage of their convictions.
This question was posed in another string:
Only one believer stepped forward in response. And then even that person disappeared without a follow up response.
Are there NO Christian believers with the courage of their convictions willing to step forward and defend what the say they believe in? And if no Christians are willing to step forward, does that not serve to explain the rapid statistical evaporation of belief in Christianity that is occurring?
Belief in Christianity has been falling at a rate of about 1% per year since the beginning of the 21st century. Could one problem be that even supposed Christian believers lack certainty in the efficacy of their beliefs?
Maybe because there are Christians who don't feel the need to "defend"the faith by arguing historical details or science. My idea of "defending the faith" is more along the lines of living it, making me a better person.
People may be moving away from organized religion, but not away from religious experience. I'm a yoga teacher and I can tell you people are in the yoga classes because they have transcendent or unitive experiences there where organized religion has failed them with its dry adherence to texts and relentless moralizing.
So the labels are falling, but that doesn't mean people are abandoning spirituality. And many of us don't bother with apologetics because history just isn't that important to lived religious experience. When I studied religions besides Christianity, nobody seemed to care that much who wrote the texts, or if the stories happened, or at least the spiritual efficacy of the texts didn't hinge on these things. I studied the Bhagavad Gita in yoga training, and not one person said "did this actually happen?" I studied the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, and nobody seems to know for certain if Patanjali wrote them, but nobody cared either. Because religious experience isn't really in the realm of the debatable, but is found in the living of it, and the fruits it produces.
If Christianity is losing adherents, I theorize it is because in this day and age it is not relevant to ask people to believe something based on an event that happened 2000 years ago (the resurrection), but rather to introduce people to an experience of God through living out the love that is taught in the gospels. The latter, however, isn't a debatable thing but is how I "defend" the faith.
**added postscript: And I'm a believer in the resurrection, but see little value in trying to prove that absent people already having a felt experience of something transcendent.
Maybe because there are Christians who don't feel the need to "defend"the faith by arguing historical details or science. My idea of "defending the faith" is more along the lines of living it, making me a better person.
People may be moving away from organized religion, but not away from religious experience. I'm a yoga teacher and I can tell you people are in the yoga classes because they have transcendent or unitive experiences there where organized religion has failed them with its dry adherence to texts and relentless moralizing.
So the labels are falling, but that doesn't mean people are abandoning spirituality. And many of us don't bother with apologetics because history just isn't that important to lived religious experience. When I studied religions besides Christianity, nobody seemed to care that much who wrote the texts, or if the stories happened, or at least the spiritual efficacy of the texts didn't hinge on these things. I studied the Bhagavad Gita in yoga training, and not one person said "did this actually happen?" I studied the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, and nobody seems to know for certain if Patanjali wrote them, but nobody cared either. Because religious experience isn't really in the realm of the debatable, but is found in the living of it, and the fruits it produces.
If Christianity is losing adherents, I theorize it is because in this day and age it is not relevant to ask people to believe something based on an event that happened 2000 years ago (the resurrection), but rather to introduce people to an experience of God through living out the love that is taught in the gospels. The latter, however, isn't a debatable thing but is how I "defend" the faith.
**added postscript: And I'm a believer in the resurrection, but see little value in trying to prove that absent people already having a felt experience of something transcendent.
Christian Defenders of the Faith. Are There Any Left?
Definitely. Check out Mike555's posts. You won't find a more vociferous apologist than him. I think even Richard Carrier would shudder at the thought of debating Mike.
I would dearly LOVE to debate Mike555. But when I appear in a string he disappears like smoke.
I would dearly LOVE to debate Mike555. But when I appear in a string he disappears like smoke.
Probably because he's tired of the nonsense and doesn't care to deal with you and the same old stuff.
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