Atheism As A REJECTION OF--Not Disbelief In--An Evil God (genesis, quote, faith)
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It's just not that simple, Arach. A couple having sex and producing a child is no comparison to how complex organisms came to life and then organized. We know how babies are made we just don't know how life (metabolic function) came out of non-life.
Life is just an exergonic reaction that can reproduce. Exergonic reactions exist outside of life; they did not originate with life, life originated with an existing chemical reaction.
There is no life non-life distinction, there is just chemistry and it's subset, biochemistry.
As someone once said, life is just a chemical reaction in a bag, and once simple life started, evolution was responsible for the rest.
It's just not that simple, Arach. A couple having sex and producing a child is no comparison to how complex organisms came to life and then organized. We know how babies are made we just don't know how life (metabolic function) came out of non-life.
I was thinking thinking, The coding to solve environmental changes is the the interesting part. when I say "machine langue", do you understand what that means? I'll assume yes.
Its not the chemistry that is fascinating, its the machine langue that is solving the for the conditional changes using the state change provided in chemistry to self program that is fascinating. Then when we understand that, everything is actually an expression of the data processing to express the things we see. from a rock to a person.
thats why "something more" when talking about god claims is the real place to start. Then we list the "somethings" next to each other. Political ends to "stop religion (or Christianity) in the states" and "my deity" starting points don't usually use the best "truths" we have in evaluating the reliability of god claims.
What measurement can we make that helps us classify the system really becomes the focal point to describe this "something more".
The "something more" directly relates to religion and spirituality because it will show that atheist and theist clearly have parts right and parts not so right.
Before addressing all this, let's do this to start: ask me a simple question that I can explain in a few sentences.
On the one hand I would like to commend you, thrillo, because you are at least demonstrating some appreciation for figuring out the answer to these questions with facts, reason and logic rather than some emotional or ultra-consciousness manner. On the other hand, it's disappointing to put in the work only to find you side-stepping like you do. If I didn't make it simple enough already, for example, I don't understand why you don't simply take my points, and address them slowly, one-by-one, in as simple a manner as possible. In any way you prefer!
With all due respect, I think you are demonstrating why you can't consider alternatives to your way of thinking even when simplified to this point already. Need a little of your help if nothing else...
1) You have to accept rather than just 3 possible explanations there are at least 4. Including the explanation we're not able to know, yet. It isn't a question of higher intelligence but lack of intelligence. Lack of knowledge. Lack of information. The lack of which once upon a time also had us thinking Earthquakes were acts of God. Again, lack of understanding is NOT proof of a higher intelligence or Intelligent Design.
But okay, let's simply start by simplifying #1 still some more...
1) SIMPLIFIED: Can you accept a fourth possible explanation beyond your three? The one you may not necessarily understand?
I'd be happy to do that. He just threw so much at me it's only going to make me repeat everything he finds so objectionable about my original response. Maybe you could pick an issue out of that list of points, phet and I'll be happy to get the conversation started.
Do try not to simply repeat yourself. Try to think about and address the questions and/or contrary opinion specifically, also based on facts, reason and logic beyond just what you want to repeat. Give it at least a bit more effort instead of hitting the repeat button!
That sounds perfectly ridiculous. Like a millionaire preacher going about the streets full of starving homeless wittering on about faith, hope, and agape love (loving-kindness, compassion, mercy, gentleness, etc. while not doing a damn' thing to help.
You surely know, Thrillo, that there are plausible mechanisms that go a long way to explaining how Life from non life (since Arach once asked, I pointed to Self -Replication as the point when that started) could have started. Therefore 'Don't know' (in the sense of no plausible explanation) is no longer the case (though Not Proven, is) and that means that there is no valid reason to believe that a god dunnit other than personal preference really.
You won't, I'm sure, confuse biological diversity, complexity or awesomeness with statistical improbability.
How about this one? "Why is complex organic matter becoming self -replicating statistically improbable?
On a bit of a side note, but maybe not too far off...
I got to thinking about all going on in the world around us and how even us "intelligent" human beings seem to be an example of unintelligent design, just like all the rest that's been going on in the universe since the beginning. We think we're intelligent, but we're all over the place. Looks to me more like a random unfolding of our evolution in every which way but lose. Forward, backward, left and right. Progress one day. Gone the next, with no real overall "rhyme or reason." Beauty, ugliness. Happiness, pain and suffering. Kindness and murder. Utter random millions of victims dead from one cause or another, or miraculous survivors. By design?
Maybe we see in the mirror the same sort of intelligent design we are seeing in the universe as a whole. That there is none!
That sounds perfectly irrelevant and distracting from the actual issues. You are losing it, Arq.
Be nice if you addressed the "disconnects" with a little more in the way of specifics and substance rather than these ongoing weak nebulous defensive say-nothing retorts, but that aside. I thought of you when I read this article before coming to this forum this morning...
Hofmann continued: “While still a child, I experienced several more of these deeply euphoric moments on my rambles through forest and meadow. It was these experiences that shaped the main outlines of my world view and convinced me of the existence of a miraculous, powerful, unfathomable reality that was hidden from everyday sight.”
Hoffman is also known for discovering the effects of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide-25, and his description of those effects in this article reminded me of how our mind can create a "reality" that isn't really there. Not necessarily anyway. Got to thinking how any meditation or effort to alter consciousness (or enhance if you prefer) is much different from getting there by way of drugs. How is the result any different in any case? Experience is experience.
On the one hand I would like to commend you, thrillo, because you are at least demonstrating some appreciation for figuring out the answer to these questions with facts, reason and logic rather than some emotional or ultra-consciousness manner. On the other hand, it's disappointing to put in the work only to find you side-stepping like you do. If I didn't make it simple enough already, for example, I don't understand why you don't simply take my points, and address them slowly, one-by-one, in as simple a manner as possible. In any way you prefer!
With all due respect, I think you are demonstrating why you can't consider alternatives to your way of thinking even when simplified to this point already. Need a little of your help if nothing else...
Learn, you're asking an almost impossible task. There is not enough room in the field to address adequately all the issues you raise and I'm certainly not going to put in the time and labor to write a book for you that you'll probably not even read. Choose your most succinct point, the one you want a detailed response to and I will answer as best I can. Or don't.
Learnme, I think you're wasting your time on this one.
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we just don't know how life (metabolic function) came out of non-life.
