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I bring up the turtle because all around the world all the religions have the same story.
They all talk about it as if it were the same story. It is the symbol for our lineage.
The best handshake among people, is that which shares knowledge of each other. When we step into another man's house. it is best to understand the words he speaks.
We can not know another person until we can feel his past. to do so requires we learn the ways of others. Learning and respecting another person's ways does not require oiving them or even agreeing with them. Friendship will survive sincere disagreements. We are all individuals and we all have many differences, but part of enjoying and learning is by valuing the differences.
I do my best to learn from all people that step inside this circle.
Words of wisdom, as is often the case from Brother Woodrow.
Osay ,to walk the Red Road you must first learn patience and humility and if you wish to talk about turtle, I must first know what you know about turtle, so if you would be so kind to tell us what you know, we would be honored.
Brother ptsum,
If ever I had any doubts or concerns (and I didn't), they would be gone now. Though we are of different backgrounds, I hear my grandfather's voice in your words.
In the native creation myth there is a turtle. You have to listen to the old stories and understand they are our ancestors way of reminding us of our origins. sea turtle people traveled across sea To central America from Africa. My favorite is the Mohawk story.
Returning to Turtle. I find that among the Native Americans there are lessons to be learned from all things. I know of the creations stories and Turtle's tole there. But, what qualities of turtle are we to lern. What lessons does turtle give us.
What is the nature of turtle and What is the spirit of Turtle.
I know much more about coyote and both laugh and learn from him.
My favorite Lakotah story of Coyote
Coyote and Wasichu
There was a white man who was such a sharp trader that nobody ever got the better of him. Or so people said, until one day a man told this wasichu:
"There's somebody who can out-cheat you anytime, anywhere."
"That's not possible," said the wasichu. "I've had a trading post for many years, and I've cheated all the Indians around here."
"Even so, Coyote can beat you in any deal."
"Let's see whether he can. Where is Coyote?"
"Over there, that tricky-looking guy."
"Okay, all right, I'll try him." The wasichu trader went over to Coyote. "Hey, let's see you outsmart me."
"I'm sorry," said Coyote, "I'd like to help you out, but I can't do it without my cheating medicine."
"Cheating medicine, hah! Go get it."
"I live miles from here and I'm on foot. But if you'd lend me your fast horse?"
"Well, all right, you can borrow it. Go on home and get your cheating medicine!"
"Well, friend, I'm a poor rider. Your horse is afraid of me, and I'm afraid of him. Lend me your clothes; then your horse will think that I am you."
"Well, all right. Here are my clothes; now you can ride him. Go get that medicine. I'm sure I can beat it!"
So Coyote rode off with the wasichu's fast horse and his fine clothes, while the wasichu stood there bare
That story has been posted on numerous Lakotah sites with slight differences in wording. I even made a few changes But I believe this is the earliest SOURCE
Last edited by Woodrow LI; 09-08-2014 at 09:25 PM..
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE][SIZE=3] When the earth was first made, it was covered all over with water except for one small island. This island was the top of a high mountain. This was Blue Mountain , in the Cherokee country. White folks came a short time ago and named this mountain Clingman's Dome, no doubt after some white man or other named Clingman. But it has always been Blue Mountain and always will be Blue Mountain . For the Cherokees, the Ani-Kituwa, the Ani-Yvwiya, this is where it begins. [/SIZE] [SIZE=3] Everyone lived together on this mountaintop island. The human beings and the animals all got along fine. In those days they could understand one another's speech, for this was before the humans broke the harmony. The animals were also much bigger in those days. In fact, the animals of today are but shadows of those who once were. It was a good place to live. Sure, the island was small, but it was what everyone knew and was used to. All were content, until there came to be more of them than the small bit of land could support. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] As they noticed they were getting crowded, a general council of all the people (both humans and animals) was called. The question was asked, "What can we do?" The only answer given was, "We can pray. All we can do is pray and ask the Grandfather Above to please give us some more land. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] So all the people prayed, and Creator/Apportioner answered, "Oh my precious children, there is nothing I enjoy so much as giving good gifts to my children. But if I do everything for you without asking you to help in any way, how will you ever learn any responsibility? I really want to teach you some responsibility. Here's what I will do: If one of you will swim to the bottom of the ocean and bring up some mud, just a little bit of mud, I will take that mud, that little bit of mud, and make a whole great land of it." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] All the people (animals and humans) began to look at one another. Someone asked, "Who will go? Who will get the mud?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] A slow, deep voice answered, "I will go. I will get the mud." It was Grandma Turtle. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "Grandma Turtle, you can't go!" They said. "You're too old and slow. We don't know what it's like down there. We don't know how deep it is." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "I'll go," quacked Duck. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "Now that's more like it," they said. "You're a good swimmer, Duck. You can go; you can do it." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Duck paddled out onto the ocean and dived, but he popped right back up to the surface. Duck dived again and again and again, but the same thing happened each time. Well, you know how ducks are. They dive well, but they float much better. Duck paddled back to shore, shook the water off his tail and said, "I can't dive that deep. I float too well." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] The question was asked again, "Who will go? Who will get the mud?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Grandma Turtle said, "I will go. I will get the mud." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "Grandma Turtle," they said, "we settled that before! You can't go. You're too old. Who will go? Who will get the mud? Hey Otter, how about you?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "What?" Otter said. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "How about you going to get the mud?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "Mud? What mud?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "The mud we need so Creator/Apportioner can make more land!" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "Oh, sure," said Otter, and he slid off into the water and was gone a good long while. When he came back, he had a fish in his mouth, but no mud. Without a word to anyone, Otter climbed up onto the beach and began munching on the fish. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Everyone was watching him, but Otter paid them no mind, just kept eating his fish. "Hey Otter!" someone yelled. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "What?" Otter said. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "Where's the mud?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "Mud? What mud?" Otter asked. "Ohhh the mud! Well, I left here to go and get it. Then I got started playing. Then I caught this fish. Then I forgot all about the ummm, ummmm, whatever it was I was supposed to get." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Oh my! They were nearly at their wits end. "Who will go?" they all asked. "Who will get the mud?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Grandma Turtle said, "I will go. I will get the mud." No one even paid her any mind. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "Who will go? Who will get the mud?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "I will go," said Beaver. "I will get the mud. I don't play, and I do not eat fish." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Resolutely, Beaver swam out into the ocean. He took a deep, deep breath and dived. Wow, Beaver was gone a long time. Some of the people watching and waiting were holding their breath in sympathy, but none seemed able to hold it that long. Finally, Beaver popped to the surface gasping for air. He swam to shore and climbed onto the beach shaking his head. "It's too deep!" Beaver said. "I don't know how deep it is. I never reached the bottom." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Everyone was in despair. Beaver was the last best hope. How would they ever get mud? Maybe there would never be anything but the little mountaintop island. "Who will go?" they asked. "Who will get the mud?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]A slow deep voice answered, "I will go. I will get the mud." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "You can't go, Grandma Turtle, you're too...." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] "I WILL GO! I WILL GET THE MUD!" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] There were no other volunteers, so they let Grandma Turtle go. She slowly paddled her way out onto the surface of the ocean. As everyone watched, she took a slow, deep breath, then another and another and another. She took three more breaths and disappeared beneath the water. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] They waited a long time. Grandma Turtle was gone much longer than Duck or Otter or even Beaver had been. She was gone all that day and the next and the next and the next. They posted a sentry up on the very top of the mountain. Finally, on the seventh day, the sentry called out, "I think I see something coming up. Yes, yes, something is rising in the water. Could it be? Could it be? Yes! It's Grandma Turtle!" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Sure enough, Grandma Turtle rose to the surface of the ocean, and there she lay, not moving, with her legs, her tail, her head all hanging down.... Grandma Turtle was dead. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Quietly, reverently, Duck, Otter and Beaver swam out and drew Grandma Turtle's body to the shore. They pulled her up on the beach, as all the people (humans and animals) gathered sadly around, and what's this? There, under her front feet, they found.... mud. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Someone took the mud, that little bit of mud from under Grandma Turtle's front feet, rolled it into a ball and lifted it up toward the sky. The Grandfather took that mud, that little bit of mud and cast it out, making this whole, great land that many nations call Turtle Island . [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Of course, it was all very wet and muddy at first. Grandpa Buzzard, who was much bigger in those days, swooped down to dry the land with his great wings. Everywhere his wings went down, there was a valley. Everywhere his wings went up, there was a mountain. If someone hadn't said, "Stop that Grandpa Buzzard!" there would be no flat land left in all the earth. [/SIZE]
Of course the Uktin, the Great Horned Serpent was in the earth. He was still very angry and very dangerous. Even the look of the Uktin’s eye was sure death, not only for the person heedless enough to make eye contact, but even for that person’s whole family. Having failed to destroy the Sun, the Uktin wanted to destroy the Earth, along with all her children, and it looked as though he would do it. But then, one came down from the heavens. This is the one the Cherokees call Jiya Unega (White Otter). Now, this name does not mean this was a white person any more than it means this was literally an otter. It is simply the name by which the Cherokees knew this person. Names have significance. Colors have significance. White, for Cherokees, is the color of the South and signifies new life, new beginnings. Jiya Unega fought against the Uktin and defeated him. Although the Uktin had children who remained in the earth, the Great Uktin himself was sent to the place where dangerous beings are kept. In his fight with the Great Horned Serpent, Jiya Unega was horribly wounded. With one arm torn from his body, Jiya Unega’s blood gushed out onto the earth, and Jiya Unega died in the earth. But Jiya Unega did not remain dead. Rising from the dead, Jiya Unega ascended into the heavens to take his place as the Morning Star, the star that shines brightest when all other stars go dim, the star that shines not with its own light but with the light of the Sun, the star the Cherokees call Unelvnvhi Uwegi (Creator-Son). We Cherokees understand that it was Jiya Unega who gave our people the Sacred Fire that has been kept now for some 5,089 years. Jiya Unega gave the Fire as reminder of Creator’s presence with us, and he gave us the ceremonies with which to keep the Fire. Jiya Unega, Creator-Son, instructed us that as long as we keep this Fire, we will continue to survive as a people.
There are four stories. like the four winds. Like the Cross. Coincidence nah. 7 days referred to over and again.
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