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But then again James was not called 'a brother of the Lord' but the brother of the Lord. (you will know how this works in Koine Greek) while Peter wasn't and he was one of the 'brothers'.
Yes, it is a grammar thing, where we will use different forms of 'the' to tell us what role the word has in the sentence, so the Greek will use 'the' where the English would not. I am writing this from the Germany, for example.
Greek also does not have an indefinite article (a, an), we often use 'one'. But you can see other examples where Paul also use 'the' when you would use 'a'.
1 Cor 1:1 Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother,
Romans 13:14 no longer, therefore, may we judge one another, but this judge ye rather, not to put a stumbling-stone before the brother, or an offence.
As for Peter being a brother, we can not determine the exact structure of the early church from Paul, but we know of the twelve and the three pillars (the writers of the Dead Sea scrolls also had a 12 and 3). Again, note 1 Corinthians 9:5 - "have we not the authority / right a sister wife to lead about, as also the other apostles, and the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?", where Cephas is separate from apostles and the brothers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
And while that might seem confusing, The actual situation was known to Paul.
Correct, Paul is writing letters to people who know things that do not need explaining to them, but leave us trying to work everything out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Ok. I'll tell you how I see it.
The wodnerul, truly beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, tale of the one Corinthian. 2.
"6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
The mention is talking about temporal rules who are mortal, or who may be deposed or killed, even Roman Emperors. Yet they rule the 'known' world and they (of all other kings and rulers, for the Roman emperors weren't the only rulers), were ones who put Jesus to death which (Paul opines) they would not have done if they had known who Jesus was. But, Paul makes it clear, they did put him to death, and they did (I reckon) know exactly who and what Jesus was, and they topped him accordingly; and if the Sanhedrin had any part in that (and they might have done) it was as part of the Roman administration, not as representative of Judaism as a whole is order to get Rome of the hook of Deicide.
Your translation is probably theological in origin. The literal passage is here talking about ages, not worlds. Find an online Bible that includes literal translations and see if your theory makes sense.
Yes, it is a grammar thing, where we will use different forms of 'the' to tell us what role the word has in the sentence, so the Greek will use 'the' where the English would not. I am writing this from the Germany, for example.
Greek also does not have an indefinite article (a, an), we often use 'one'. But you can see other examples where Paul also use 'the' when you would use 'a'.
1 Cor 1:1 Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother,
Romans 13:14 no longer, therefore, may we judge one another, but this judge ye rather, not to put a stumbling-stone before the brother, or an offence.
As for Peter being a brother, we can not determine the exact structure of the early church from Paul, but we know of the twelve and the three pillars (the writers of the Dead Sea scrolls also had a 12 and 3). Again, note 1 Corinthians 9:5 - "have we not the authority / right a sister wife to lead about, as also the other apostles, and the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?", where Cephas is separate from apostles and the brothers.
Correct, Paul is writing letters to people who know things that do not need explaining to them, but leave us trying to work everything out.
Your translation is probably theological in origin. The literal passage is here talking about ages, not worlds. Find an online Bible that includes literal translations and see if your theory makes sense.
I'll do that; but note the context; Paul speaks of the temporal power and the wisdom of the Greeks. This is factual rather than theological. Paul is talking of actual temporal rulers who put Jesus to death. Or that's how it looks to me.
And, while I note the collective 'brethren of the Lord', Peter is separate, because he had a particular mission 'To the Jews' (as I recall) and Paul says his was to the Gentiles. Though Peter (Cephas) appears (from Paul) also to interact with Gentiles (perhaps 'associate Jews'). I reiterate that James was someone (along wit Peter) whom Paul went to see to get his position clarified, and James (singled out as 'The Lord's brother' rather than 'a brother of the Lord' (depending on the Greek) as distinct from Peter who wasn't, even if (coincidentally) his position as an apostle with some Mission was made distinct from the general bunch of 'brethren' in Jerusalem.
Well it is translated literally as 'The Rulers of this age who are coming to naught', which is what you said. I'll check again.
Yes, that and the 'rulers of this age' seem to be the same who would not (if they had understood - it says) have crucified Jesus. So I have to consider that support for your reading.
I don't want to 'Interpret' this to mean what I want, but suppose Paul had the belief that the last Days were coming pretty soon. Then wouldn't the Roman rule be 'coming to naught'? I have long thought that Paul's idea was to convert the Roman world (as much as possible) so they would share in the Promise, when the eschatological crap hit the fan.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-23-2020 at 11:33 AM..
Despite the deep differences in our views, I truly appreciate your contributions to this thread, Arq and Harry. It is quite educational and enlightening. Thank you both.
listening to Trans and Harry
is like someone who spends 20, 30, 40 years still talking about their ex
and it is clear to everyone how deeply attached, committed, and devoted they are.
how enamored they are of their beloved, poring over every letter, every moment,
over and over reviewing and revisiting, every word every incident, every nuance,
aching and yearning to clearly spend as much time together
as they can, the feelings they have for their ex apparent to all.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-23-2020 at 01:16 PM..
listening to Trans and Harry
is like someone who spends 20, 30, 40 years still talking about their ex
and it is clear to everyone how deeply attached, committed, and devoted they are.
how enamored they are of their beloved, poring over every letter, every moment,
over and over reviewing and revisiting, every word every incident, every nuance,
aching and yearning to clearly spend as much time together
as they can, the feelings they have for their ex apparent to all.
Exhibit #183: Why you should not be taken seriously.
listening to Trans and Harry
is like someone who spends 20, 30, 40 years still talking about their ex
and it is clear to everyone how deeply attached, committed, and devoted they are.
how enamored they are of their beloved, poring over every letter, every moment,
over and over reviewing and revisiting, every word every incident, every nuance,
aching and yearning to clearly spend as much time together
as they can, the feelings they have for their ex apparent to all.
Yes, it’s like watching a bad break up where one person can’t stop obsessing about, and trash-talking, the other and consequently never really moves on with their life. The ‘attachment’ never ends and it’s obvious, pathetic and unhealthy to everyone else who observes the behaviour, except to the obsessed person.
listening to Trans and Harry
is like someone who spends 20, 30, 40 years still talking about their ex
and it is clear to everyone how deeply attached, committed, and devoted they are.
how enamored they are of their beloved, poring over every letter, every moment,
over and over reviewing and revisiting, every word every incident, every nuance,
aching and yearning to clearly spend as much time together
as they can, the feelings they have for their ex apparent to all.
You misunderstand the nature of my study of the Gospels. Iit is not, as you are telling yourself, a fascination that will, in due course, turn me into a believer; it is a fascination that, as I study it more (the results of which the Believers can't really honestly contemplate, as we see here) only shows me more and more that the gospels are not a reliable record of who Jesus was, the stock dismissals of the contradictions are not valid and the basic tenets of Christianity cannot be taken as believable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
Exhibit #183: Why you should not be taken seriously.
Quite. It's par for the course; rather than dispute what we argue, they have to try to undermine our supposed motives. What is clear that they neither know nor care what our motives really are. The best example perhaps being Rachel Slick, brainwashed by her father into belief and only coming to see that the Bible didn't stack up when encountering non -believers at university and studying the Bible to Refute them.
Thereafter, realising how she'd been conned all that time, she (for a time) became activist, feeling the need to let people know how they'd been conned.
Yes, it’s like watching a bad break up where one person can’t stop obsessing about, and trash-talking, the other and consequently never really moves on with their life. The ‘attachment’ never ends and it’s obvious, pathetic and unhealthy to everyone else who observes the behaviour, except to the obsessed person.
LOL.
That you and Tzaph are now BFFs is no surprise. Spiritual <<cut>>.
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-23-2020 at 07:04 PM..
Reason: Edited.
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The Gospels Readactively Critiqued.
Who, me?
