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I remember when I felt the power of God's love. It was the night when I decided to leave Christianity, when I decided to take full responsibility for my actions, when I decided that if anything unfortunate happened to me or my family, a god wouldn't be blamed. The only credit I give to god is the feeling of freedom that night, which continues to this very day. Freedom is how I feel loved.
I don't think there is any turning back. I have encountered good teaching that supports perspective. This is different from providing perspective and hoping good teaching follows (or in some cases, teaching was not even provided). This has been my experience with Christianity.
You have discerned the essence of our task in the bold. God is independent and so are we to become independent and self-reliant, NOT slaves, or pets. It is our character that should drive our attitudes and behaviors, NOT obedience for obedience sake. That is the freedom Jesus proclaimed and demonstrated.
You have discerned the essence of our task in the bold. God is independent and so are we to become independent and self-reliant, NOT slaves, or pets. It is our character that should drive our attitudes and behaviors, NOT obedience for obedience sake. That is the freedom Jesus proclaimed and demonstrated.
Could you quote scripture that essentially says that?
Could you quote scripture that essentially says that?
Scripture was written by men who didn't believe that, phet. They believed in obedience for obedience sake because it was God's will. They believed God controlled everything in including their own decisions and actions whether willful or accidental. If you were crippled in an accident, they believe God was displeased with you, so they would mistreat the cripples. They did not want to treat them better than God did. Why would you want to use their interpretations of God's motives?
Scripture was written by men who didn't believe that, phet. They believed in obedience for obedience sake because it was God's will. They believed God controlled everything in including their own decisions and actions whether willful or accidental. If you were crippled in an accident, they believe God was displeased with you, so they would mistreat the cripples. They did not want to treat them better than God did. Why would you want to use their interpretations of God's motives?
Okay.
But here's my point -- you just made up your premise.
I find nothing particularly wrong with the premise. But you just made it up.
Could you quote scripture that essentially says that?
It is indeed made up. In fact the Gospels emphasise the character of Jesus as being obedient up to and including death, even though he asked to be let off. Mystic takes the mental writing of the Ghost Bible to new levels in making the NT say whatever he wants it to say.
We already saw Bapfun and Jeffbase flatly deny what the Bible actually said about slavery. It's an interesting display of making the Dogma conform to what human morality has come to see as good and if the Bible says anything else, then they deny it and make up a 'Ghost Bible' in the head and quote from that.
Okay.
But here's my point -- you just made up your premise.
I find nothing particularly wrong with the premise. But you just made it up.
What you call "made up" is logical extrapolation from the nature of God as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus - God IS agape love - and from our status as children of God, NOT pets or slaves of God. While the mindsets of our primitive ancestors had the wrong context from which to derive the syllogisms from those basic premises, I am certain you are more than capable of it. So calling it "made up" is hardly appropriate, phet.
What you call "made up" is logical extrapolation from the nature of God as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus - God IS agape love - and from our status as children of God, NOT pets or slaves of God. While the mindsets of our primitive ancestors had the wrong context from which to derive the syllogisms from those basic premises, I am certain you are more than capable of it. So calling it "made up" is hardly appropriate, phet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
It is indeed made up.
See above, Arq! What I find odd is that you go to great pains to deconstruct the Gospels and yet here you invoke them. Resorting to Gospels interpreted in a misguided context about the nature of God is, I suppose, more a consequence of a logical ineptitude than anything. You should have the logical ability to derinve the necessary syllogisms that produce my assertions showing that they are NOT "made up."
What you call "made up" is logical extrapolation from the nature of God as revealed and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus - God IS agape love - and from our status as children of God, NOT pets or slaves of God. While the mindsets of our primitive ancestors had the wrong context from which to derive the syllogisms from those basic premises, I am certain you are more than capable of it. So calling it "made up" is hardly appropriate, phet.
Well, it isn't in the gospel...is it?
Is there some large church out there that preaches this? Not that I'm aware of.
Well, it isn't in the gospel...is it?
Is there some large church out there that preaches this? Not that I'm aware of.
But again, where did Jesus say what you said?
So how is it not just made up?
Whether or not there is a church out there that preaches it is irrelevant. It is extrapolated logically FROM the Gospel.
1 John 4:7-8 (King James Version)
7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
The love used here is agape.
Luke 6:35
King James Version
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
1 John 4:4 (King James Version)
4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
"God IS agape love" and "we are children of God" are part of the Gospel. Logically extrapolate from there to my assertions and you can see it is NOT "made up."
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