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I knew you would love marc. He's a self triggered landmine. He'll attack anything that says anything that can give theist something. Weather its true or not is secondary to you.
It's so very easy to play the bias card when you don't have anything better. And the pair of you might do better to return to topic. We already saw a bit of impatient crimson.
It's so very easy to play the bias card when you don't have anything better. And the pair of you might do better to return to topic. We already saw a bit of impatient crimson.
the good thing about just being honest and using evidence ... I don't have to clever with theology.
I just look at how people respond to reasonable claims. A reasonable claim ...
You are 95% other matter and energy than what we, or yourself, see. Is that the soul.
Can you offer something more than the usual ...
1-Its ok to believe that just don't question us it slow us down or get in out way. We are fighting for you too.
2-beleiving god is natural and we are part it it is meaningless and gets us nowhere
3-we do not have burden of proof.
4- you are "enabling them"
5- you are anti-atheist.
I mean something in the way actual evidence? I don't even believe it trans, but I can use actual science to disprove my own claim. You can't. Trout even believes in a soul more than I do.
Look at your list that you toss around as "evidence", its pure atheist philosophy. And since we are in a religions and spirituality form and you are controlled by what theist say, I might as well call it atheist theology. It is zero strength of evidence.
Man, how would you love me if this was an activist forum. It kind of bums you out doesn't it? Its real simple to pick people like me up trans. Just be honest. Keep god claims separate from bad religion discussions. And we fall in right behind you.
If you are going to include me in a comment, please tell the truth.
You routinely make assertions that can NOT be scientifically supported because we cannot prove a negative. We cannot just automatically assume your preferred BELIEFS about what DOES exist because you love the flawed thinking about claims that applies to what does NOT exist that you think allows you to do so about the ontology of what DOES EXIST.
You routinely make assertions that can NOT be scientifically supported because we cannot prove a negative.
Quote me doing this. Not your straw man non sequitur conclusion, quote me actually doing this.
Because the last time I looked out of my window, the universe definitely did exist.
Yes, there it is (or a small, wet part of it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
We cannot just automatically assume your preferred BELIEFS about what DOES exist because you love the flawed thinking about claims that applies to what does NOT exist that you think allows you to do so about the ontology of what DOES EXIST.
Again, if you are going to include me in a comment, please tell the truth. Your 'argument' has nothing to do with my position.
You routinely make assertions that can NOT be scientifically supported because we cannot prove a negative. We cannot just automatically assume your preferred BELIEFS about what DOES exist because you love the flawed thinking about claims that applies to what does NOT exist that you think allows you to do so about the ontology of what DOES EXIST.
He who makes the positive claim must bring the convincing strong evidence. The rest of us are not obligated to disprove your irrational beliefs. It’s really very simple. If you claim something exists, it is incumbent upon you to present the evidence. The default position is disbelief. You were born an atheist. People convinced you otherwise. That’s your problem, and you have to solve it.
You routinely make assertions that can NOT be scientifically supported because we cannot prove a negative. We cannot just automatically assume your preferred BELIEFS about what DOES exist because you love the flawed thinking about claims that applies to what does NOT exist that you think allows you to do so about the ontology of what DOES EXIST.
You know the real problem Mystic.
The influence of organized religion is so strong...these people now have an indelible image in their head of God as some bearded old man that dwells up in the sky somewhere, with a bunch of harp-playing, naked, chubby, winged babies flying around him...as he calls the shots on what happens to people and the celestial bodies (mainly the Earth), as per whatever his volatile attitude is at the time.
And that Soul/Spirit is some ghostly facsimile of you that rises up out of your lifeless body when you die...then spends the rest of eternity either happily chilling with the bearded guy up above the clouds, or in some fiery pit, burning and screaming, while some red, tailed, horned, monster guy named Satan stabs you with his trident and laughs at your suffering.
And if you cannot PROVE all that exists...you cannot prove the existence of God/Spirit/Soul/etc. And any other manifestation or perception of God, Soul, etc, is directly related to and assessed based upon the aforementioned.
They just cannot get beyond that.
You know the real problem Mystic.
The influence of organized religion is so strong...these people now have an indelible image in their head of God as some bearded old man that dwells up in the sky somewhere, with a bunch of harp-playing, naked, chubby, winged babies flying around him...as he calls the shots on what happens to people and the celestial bodies (mainly the Earth), as per whatever his volatile attitude is at the time.
And that Soul/Spirit is some ghostly facsimile of you that rises up out of your lifeless body when you die...then spends the rest of eternity either happily chilling with the bearded guy up above the clouds, or in some fiery pit, burning and screaming, while some red, tailed, horned, monster guy named Satan stabs you with his trident and laughs at your suffering.
And if you cannot PROVE all that exists...you cannot prove the existence of God/Spirit/Soul/etc. And any other manifestation or perception of God, Soul, etc, is directly related to and assessed based upon the aforementioned.
They just cannot get beyond that.
Wrong, we just recognize how bad your arguments are.
Wrong, we just recognize how bad your arguments are.
No...your unfortunate lack of the perceptive abilities that the vast majority possess results in that failure to recognize.
Most (and that is MOST) can perceive God, no problem...you just happen to be one of the few that can't.
He who makes the positive claim must bring the convincing strong evidence. The rest of us are not obligated to disprove your irrational beliefs. It’s really very simple. If you claim something exists, it is incumbent upon you to present the evidence. The default position is disbelief. You were born an atheist. People convinced you otherwise. That’s your problem, and you have to solve it.
Again...you talk about, "The Burden of Proof".
That obligation is upon the one making the "extraordinary", "remarkable", or "new" claim.
Well..."God Exists" (and the Soul/Spirit) has been sooooooo prolific, for sooooooo long...it is considered a "Standard of Human Understanding".
When a concept reaches a "saturation point" that is to such a degree that it is considered to be "The Standard"...a position that deviates from that would be the "extraordinary/remarkable/new claim" that will have to prove itself against the long established standard.
Belief in God has been the "norm" (8to9 out of 10) for THOOOOOOOUSANDS of years. It's the "incumbent position"...the "ruling viewpoint"...the "champion concept"!
That concept does not have to prove itself...it currently "holds office"! It's upon the challenger (Atheism) to prove itself.
So far it's gotten steamrolled and flattened, in every "race". If it were seen as an "election"...Atheism would be viewed as being defeated in the biggest landslide EVER.
Here we have the Challenger with a 1W-9L record "calling out" the REEEEEEEIGNING, AND DEFENNNNNNDING, UNNNNNN-DE-FEATED, CHAAAAAAAM-PI-OOOOOOON CONNNNNNNCEPT, OOOOOOF THE WORRRRRRRLD...and demand it "prove" itself.
Also, I hold Atheism in higher regard, and view it as superior, to most concepts...and certainly above all organized religious dogma. I'm just pointing out the REALITY as to what "The Way Of The World" is.
Just like Galileo had to PROVE the universe DOES NOT revolve around the Earth, since that concept was in opposition to the "long established standard" that it did...the Atheists will have to PROVE God DOES NOT exist, if they want their concept to be accepted as valid.
BTW...good luck with that. It will be much harder for the Atheists than it was for Galileo...since he was right, and they are wrong (about God not existing).
The "God Exists" concept has "taken on all challengers" for thousands of years and "dusted them" like they weren't even there!!
He who makes the positive claim must bring the convincing strong evidence. The rest of us are not obligated to disprove your irrational beliefs. It’s really very simple. If you claim something exists, it is incumbent upon you to present the evidence. The default position is disbelief. You were born an atheist. People convinced you otherwise. That’s your problem, and you have to solve it.
Hi Marc. What, if anything, would be enough to convince you that the soul exists?
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