Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you read your history, you'll find that many of the Nazis were conflicted about their roles and what they were commanded to do. Sadly, they weren't conflicted enough, and those who weren't conflicted at all were truly evil. Not all Nazis were okay with the atrocities.
Yes, but what was the fate of Nazi society? It was deemed abhorrent by the larger (global) population, and was, in the end, purged from the planet.
Things might be effected slowly, but in the end, societies that care for all of their members will win out, because everyone in a society has some needed contribution, and those societies that care for all perpetuate.
Yes, but what was the fate of Nazi society? It was deemed abhorrent by the larger (global) population, and was, in the end, purged from the planet.
Things might be effected slowly, but in the end, societies that care for all of their members will win out, because everyone in a society has some needed contribution, and those societies that care for all perpetuate.
Exactly. Which is why hate groups like fundamentalists are on the fast track to extinction. They are anathema to a healthy society.
A certain segment of their society told them that. They in turn lied to the German people and convinced them to go along. They will forever be abhorrent.
Romeo Dallaire, on recounting the Rwandan Genocide, stated many Tutsi people waited at roadblocks, knowing their fate with the machete-wielding Hutu militias, without "a peep of protest ".
In the face of guaranteed murder, belief or non-belief in God does not seem to sway behaviors.
Most people should read shake hands with the devil . It's a clearer description of how fast people can be lead towards hatred against others. And then many took actions .
I don't remember if any were believers or non believers it's been awhile since I read it.
Originally Posted by Mink57 View Post
How does believing in God and/or an afterlife equate to "throwing our lives away"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Because it encourages people to not care about the risks to their lives, because they'll be guaranteed heaven if they die fighting for the cross.
This is not even close to being true, Trans.
Would it be fair for me to say that atheism ONLY "encourages people to not care about the risks to the lives of others because they only care about themselves"? I don't believe that any more than *you* do.
Quote:
It's effectively martyrdom and that is the loophole in the (unwritten) restriction against suicide, which the Church needed to stop people killing themselves and their families to get into heaven right away. And if they all did that, who'd pay money into the church?
Were the men who fought and died in battles to preserve their belief in freedom "martyrs"? If someone enlists to 'serve' their country, knowing fully well that they could be killed, are they deemed "suicidal"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
What about the opposite question? If there is an afterlife, is murder wrong? How does one condemn Andrea Yates, who drowned her children in the bathtub to get them into heaven faster? This is one of the numerous problems certain religious believers have never really solved, they just train apologists to professionally dodge the question.
Quote:
Yes. They do dodge the question, but the apologetic (that I have seen hinted at) has been that only God chooses when you die and, if you abrogate that decision to yourself, God will be miffed and send you to hell. If it wasn't for that what would stop believers topping themselves in droves?
Yes, many believers DO believe that only God has the right to choose when you die. It's one reason why many believers don't believe in the death penalty. We have no way of knowing if the perpetrator would ever become repentant.
Even though some believers may believe that if they knew they would go to heaven today, they would "top" themselves right now, it doesn't mean that EVERY believer would do that. Some would elect to stay here on earth because they believe that that their years on earth might be beneficial to others. I have no way of knowing that, unless I elect to stay here.
You can't take extremism and make it out to be the "norm".
And I certainly don't believe that I--or other believers--are "throwing our lives away", simply because we're believers.
Doesn't answer the point, though. And that's that society can't determine morality, nor even invent the concept.
This is a hard one. Society did determine morality. I determined my morality (strongly influenced by societal norms). My morality IS different to 'Christian morality' though. I've heard Christians say things that seem to make it sound as though it's OK to send someone to hell and are themselves OK with people going to hell. I flatly reject that idea. I was brought up being taught that sex was a sin - I flatly reject that idea (I can say more about that). My father was reprimanded for talking to a girl for heaven sake!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Yet, their society told them murder was ok.
No, not their society. Their society did not know what was going on. It was a group within their society that was responsible. That doesn't make it any less reprehensible. And forget forget, these were Christians, supposedly, in a Christian society.
To be clear, I am not blaming Christianity for what these sub-humans did.
This is a hard one. Society did determine morality. I determined my morality (strongly influenced by societal norms). My morality IS different to 'Christian morality' though. I've heard Christians say things that seem to make it sound as though it's OK to send someone to hell and are themselves OK with people going to hell. I flatly reject that idea. I was brought up being taught that sex was a sin - I flatly reject that idea (I can say more about that). My father was reprimanded for talking to a girl for heaven sake!
No, not their society. Their society did not know what was going on. It was a group within their society that was responsible. That doesn't make it any less reprehensible. And forget forget, these were Christians, supposedly, in a Christian society.
To be clear, I am not blaming Christianity for what these sub-humans did.
we can't blame Christians because more Christians went to stop them.
Most people should read shake hands with the devil . It's a clearer description of how fast people can be lead towards hatred against others. And then many took actions .
I don't remember if any were believers or non believers it's been awhile since I read it.
based on commonsense, reason, and science, most people are believers. The real question is reliability of what they are claiming. deity and lack belief in anything to stop religion are the least reliable.
oh wait ... I forgot ... lmao ...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
