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In my view, Buddhism accepts that in life there is suffering, and emphasizes ways to avoid or get out of the suffering rut.
Christianity seems to almost enjoy suffering since it's seen as a way to emulate what Jesus supposedly experienced on the cross.
In my view, Buddhism accepts that in life there is suffering, and emphasizes ways to avoid or get out of the suffering rut.
Christianity seems to almost enjoy suffering since it's seen as a way to emulate what Jesus supposedly experienced on the cross.
Actually, my Baptist church has always taught the former, more or less.
In my view, Buddhism accepts that in life there is suffering, and emphasizes ways to avoid or get out of the suffering rut.
Christianity seems to almost enjoy suffering since it's seen as a way to emulate what Jesus supposedly experienced on the cross.
Some groups more than others. Catholics are particularly into it. Some of their art is what I refer to as "suffering porn". People in agony, their faces contorted, their eyes rolled up ... but always portrayed as good for the soul somehow. I cannot state how many ways I disagree with that view!
My own sect was more along the lines of "life is a tiresome slog because this world is not our home, we're just passing through, holding on until the end. Someday in heaven we'll feel better". And yet, schizophrenically, they presented the Christian life as an antidote for everything that's supposed to be terribly wrong with the unbeliever's life. And they made all sorts of elaborate promises: god will protect you, guide you, reward you, bless you, if only you put all your trust in him. It was crazy-making.
Buddhism is not without merit with respect to suffering, and while I do no practice it (I find it rather too crufty for my taste), I borrow from its philosophical underpinnings. I have lost a lot in life, and it has been painful, but I don't dwell on it or let it define me in the sense that I lay awake nights pining about it. Beyond a certain point, grief and sorrow either take you down or in the alternative death becomes your "frenemy" and you learn to work with it as part of life. Not just the people who die of "natural causes" in the normal story arc -- when they are old, preferably in their sleep -- but the people who die "out of turn", through illness or misadventure, as was true of those I itemized in my earlier post.
But the thing is, I will take the experience of losing a loved one as an unbeliever vs a believer any day of the week. It is bad enough to go through something like that, without having the usual agonized questions generated by my faith of origin: why me, why them, why now, what did I do wrong, what did I not do sufficiently right. Or more generically: why is this thing happening that is not supposed to happen, why am I being punished for being good, etc. When you understand that sometimes people just die or have bad outcomes, and you can't save everyone (or indeed really anyone; they must save themselves) then death is just a regrettable thing that happens sometimes and you can get down to the work of getting THROUGH it. Christianity, for me anyway, got in the way of that, and multiplied my pain, and delayed my healing -- in large measure because it incorrectly set my expectations and distorted my understanding of life.
.. it is very easy for me to see that there is a whole lot of suffering going on out there no matter what anyone believes about anything.
Yes in the face of loss, belief really isn't much help. Even a cursory study of thanatology informs us that grief is proportional to the day to day involvement of the deceased in your life (especially of course if their influence was, on balance, positive and loving, but even losing a difficult family member represents a loss -- no more opportunity for redemption). It is NOT proportional to whether you believe you'll see them again in the sweet by-and-by. It is going to feel like your soul is ripped in two regardless of that. If you are twenty years into what it supposed to be a 50 or 60 year relationship then that is 30 or 40 years you are obliged to be without that person, decades of shared experiences lost. At best, you have to find, woo, win and integrate yourself with another person, which is no small task. But that doesn't entirely remove the sting of the loss. Nothing ever does.
I will say though I am glad I don't believe in an afterlife, having three wives in heaven would be awkward to say the least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
All that said, all I ask is that the orgasms don't stop...
Lol. I wish you good fortune in that and all regards!
Some groups more than others. Catholics are particularly into it. Some of their art is what I refer to as "suffering porn". People in agony, their faces contorted, their eyes rolled up ... but always portrayed as good for the soul somehow. I cannot state how many ways I disagree with that view!
My own sect was more along the lines of "life is a tiresome slog because this world is not our home, we're just passing through, holding on until the end. Someday in heaven we'll feel better". And yet, schizophrenically, they presented the Christian life as an antidote for everything that's supposed to be terribly wrong with the unbeliever's life. And they made all sorts of elaborate promises: god will protect you, guide you, reward you, bless you, if only you put all your trust in him. It was crazy-making.
Buddhism is not without merit with respect to suffering, and while I do no practice it (I find it rather too crufty for my taste), I borrow from its philosophical underpinnings. I have lost a lot in life, and it has been painful, but I don't dwell on it or let it define me in the sense that I lay awake nights pining about it. Beyond a certain point, grief and sorrow either take you down or in the alternative death becomes your "frenemy" and you learn to work with it as part of life. Not just the people who die of "natural causes" in the normal story arc -- when they are old, preferably in their sleep -- but the people who die "out of turn", through illness or misadventure, as was true of those I itemized in my earlier post.
But the thing is, I will take the experience of losing a loved one as an unbeliever vs a believer any day of the week. It is bad enough to go through something like that, without having the usual agonized questions generated by my faith of origin: why me, why them, why now, what did I do wrong, what did I not do sufficiently right. Or more generically: why is this thing happening that is not supposed to happen, why am I being punished for being good, etc. When you understand that sometimes people just die or have bad outcomes, and you can't save everyone (or indeed really anyone; they must save themselves) then death is just a regrettable thing that happens sometimes and you can get down to the work of getting THROUGH it. Christianity, for me anyway, got in the way of that, and multiplied my pain, and delayed my healing -- in large measure because it incorrectly set my expectations and distorted my understanding of life.
I think the most bizarre thing I learned about in this regard are ceremonies in the Phillipines where catholics allow themselves to be crucified in religious rituals.
Because no one really knows for sure. I live in "beat yourself into the chest how religious I am" Pentecostal environment and it is amazing to see, regardless of how "faithful" and "righteous" and "chosen" they are, how they all are afraid to die.
This is a great dilemma of the true believer and a poser.
"life is a tiresome slog because this world is not our home, we're just passing through, holding on until the end. Someday in heaven we'll feel better".
Exactly how the church was in which I was raised (Reformed Church of America). Life sucks now, but hey, someday we'll be dead and it will be GREAT.
But don't kill yourself to get there faster! A childhood friend who was in one of the more strict Reformed Church denominations committed suicide at 35. He was a good guy, but always shy because he had a debilitating illness that started in his teens. He had married, but his wife had left him and took their two daughters to another state, he'd lost his job and couldn't afford a lawyer to try to see his kids, and then he went to buy gas for his car one day and found out his wife had cancelled his credit cards. His mother said he was looking at a photo album of his wife and kids and saying, "Look at all I've lost." A few days later he shot himself in the head in the wee hours of the morning.
His parents went to church that Sunday, where one of their fine Christian brethren said, "I'm sorry about your son, but you know he went straight to hell for what he did."
There are people on this forum who would say, "oh what an awful thing for a Christian to say", but you can bet they THINK that it's true.
Exactly how the church was in which I was raised (Reformed Church of America). Life sucks now, but hey, someday we'll be dead and it will be GREAT.
But don't kill yourself to get there faster! A childhood friend who was in one of the more strict Reformed Church denominations committed suicide at 35. He was a good guy, but always shy because he had a debilitating illness that started in his teens. He had married, but his wife had left him and took their two daughters to another state, he'd lost his job and couldn't afford a lawyer to try to see his kids, and then he went to buy gas for his car one day and found out his wife had cancelled his credit cards. His mother said he was looking at a photo album of his wife and kids and saying, "Look at all I've lost." A few days later he shot himself in the head in the wee hours of the morning.
His parents went to church that Sunday, where one of their fine Christian brethren said, "I'm sorry about your son, but you know he went straight to hell for what he did."
There are people on this forum who would say, "oh what an awful thing for a Christian to say", but you can bet they THINK that it's true.
I feel there is something missing in the hearts of those who can accept a God who would ever create such a place for any of His children for ANY REASON.
His parents went to church that Sunday, where one of their fine Christian brethren said, "I'm sorry about your son, but you know he went straight to hell for what he did."
Even assuming this were correct, in what Kafkaesque mental landscape does someone deliberately inflict agony
on people deep in grief like that? What is it about this impulse to make their grief as horrible as possible? To gloat that this would never happen to them?
Like I said, believers have no monopoly on virtue, and unbelievers have no monopoly on vice.
My parents converted to this sort of religion at around age 40, and they had already been socialized to be decent human beings. I don't know how it would have warped me if they had not already been well-formed, or had been significantly undermined by this sort of wanton, gratuitous cruelty. And I don't want to know.
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