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Is there any evidence Atheists have no problem with the LGBT sexual preference without regard to religious dictate? Does being devoid of religious beliefs also mean one is the most progressive, open minded, liberal, peace for all, human rights for everyone kind of person?
That will be quite amazing.
Does one exception prove otherwise in both camps? If it is all relative then does it matter what the truthiness of truth truly is?
Now we call for evidence? Good, but I think the evidence is quite clear here too...
Personally, I only know of religious scripture, doctrine, beliefs -- and actions -- that are specific about this topic, and wrong. There may be atheists who are also in the wrong about this, but I'm not aware of any atheist beliefs similarly in writing that are similarly in the wrong, and I don't know that I've ever known any atheist to suggest such a thing, let alone having anything to do with being an atheist.
Do you?
As for the rest, reads to me like another attempt to mask or minimize a simple and obvious wrong with a spin into other areas of discussion that detract from the one point I was making.
You claim you get these points that I am making, but reading your comments is why I continue to point out you really are not. Sure seems to me you are missing more than you are getting in any case. That or you just enjoy being argumentative with me even when we should have no argument. No doubt some of that too.
Personally, I only know of religious scripture, doctrine, beliefs -- and actions -- that are specific about this topic, and wrong. There may be atheists who are also in the wrong about this, but I'm not aware of any atheist beliefs similarly in writing that are similarly in the wrong, and I don't know that I've ever known any atheist to suggest such a thing, let alone having anything to do with being an atheist.
Do you?
As for the rest, reads to me like another attempt to mask or minimize a simple and obvious wrong with a spin into other areas of discussion that detract from the one point I was making.
You claim you get these points that I am making, but reading your comments is why I continue to point out you really are not. Sure seems to me you are missing more than you are getting in any case. That or you just enjoy being argumentative with me even when we should have no argument. No doubt some of that too.
Atheists, and religious people, can simply be repulsed by LGBT sexual practices. And there may those in both camps who believe it is ok, or simply not care, if they are denied rights. Same with immigrants, muslims, women, old Asian women, all kinds of groups people can hate for whatever reason. You dont think that is possible?
Atheists, and religious people, can simply be repulsed by LGBT sexual practices. And there may those in both camps who believe it is ok, or simply not care, if they are denied rights. Same with immigrants, muslims, women, old Asian women, all kinds of groups people can hate for whatever reason. You dont think that is possible?
I think Learnme is talking about basic rights. Being repulsed by somebody should not prevent them from obtaining the same benefits as other people do.
A demand of evidence can be a conversation stopper. So I just give it. And that is where my belief that evidence is a gift comes from and the person can do what they want with it, like any other gift.
The rest of this post is not aimed at you, cb2008. In another thread, a person mentioned that the mere belief in a god is evidence that a god exists concretely and so faith is not without evidence. I found this intriguing because I do believe that faith cannot exist without evidence. My response to that is that the belief in God is evidence that humans are capable of abstract ideas. Our abstract thoughts are made visible through language and concrete structures. This is no different than my assertion that evidence is a gift. Just because I can view evidence as a gift, doesn't make it a literal gift. My thinking is just evidence that I can think abstractly about things.
I find your belief that evidence as a gift interesting. The way i interpret what you are saying from your second paragraph, that the belief that faith in god itself is evidence of god, and that evidence is a gift to the self. This is not a gift you can give to someone, it stays with you. Same with that kind of evidence, the abstract idea, that evidence cannot have meaning for anyone other than self.
Also this. The personal views on spirituality and the metaphysical may rest on years of contemplation, studies, exploration, discussions, attending lectures, journaling and writing. It is not come by in a vacuum. Evidence may have to be a book. Are those who demand prepared to read my book? With notes and bibliography and index? I doubt that will satisfy them, if at all they are capable of understanding it.
So what’s the point? Why waste our time with evidence for those who only ask to ridicule and dismiss?
Atheists, and religious people, can simply be repulsed by LGBT sexual practices. And there may those in both camps who believe it is ok, or simply not care, if they are denied rights. Same with immigrants, muslims, women, old Asian women, all kinds of groups people can hate for whatever reason. You dont think that is possible?
Really?
How one feels about LGBT sexual practices is NOT what should determine whether they are entitled to their civil rights. Hello?
Of course it is not only possible but it's quite obvious that groups of people can hate for whatever reason. Talk about overwhelming evidence. Talk about the sad truth, but again this is not the point!
Hate for all these phobic or similarly misguided reasons is wrong. Plain and simple. In all cases. People are people, and as long as they are not doing harm to others, it is wrong for others to impose their beliefs on others in these unjustified, misguided and harmful ways. Especially the backward beliefs, like these that cause people to deny others in the LGBT community their civil rights.
You may just want to argue this simple truth as well, but I've got to sign off now as I feel my patience with you slipping away. Again.
I think Learnme is talking about basic rights. Being repulsed by somebody should not prevent them from obtaining the same benefits as other people do.
True, and unfortunately in much the same way, even though the thinking on the part of some people is repulsive to me, they have a right to think what they do. Though they forever retard our progress by doing so, at the great expense of too many poor innocent people who's only crime is to be different from others.
So evaluating evidence using verified methods is no better than 'because Tzap says so'?
Correct...Tzaph can make evaluations that have as good a chance of being at the top end of the Probability Scale as most anyone can.
For some evaluations...of things intuitive and perceptive in nature (especially relative to things considered Divine and/or Sacred)...she is much better at that than most.
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