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Thanks for the Wiki-link. I didn't find that on my research. Those explanations are good and make sense. Except the final line is confusing:
Benjamin Netanyahu in his 2017 UN speech quoted Isaiah again that the state of Israel is "a light unto the nations, bringing salvation to the ends of the earth".
Since "salvation" came from Jesus, how is this statement reconciled, since the Jews don't believe in him?
Salvation only comes from Jesus in the eyes of Christians. In the eyes of Jews, it comes through keeping Torah.
Thanks for the Wiki-link. I didn't find that on my research. Those explanations are good and make sense. Except the final line is confusing:
Benjamin Netanyahu in his 2017 UN speech quoted Isaiah again that the state of Israel is "a light unto the nations, bringing salvation to the ends of the earth".
Since "salvation" came from Jesus, how is this statement reconciled, since the Jews don't believe in him?
According to Judaism salvation comes from God and only God, so Netanyahu's understanding was that Jews would lead others back to God which would then allow salvation.
Thanks for the Wiki-link. I didn't find that on my research. Those explanations are good and make sense. Except the final line is confusing:
Benjamin Netanyahu in his 2017 UN speech quoted Isaiah again that the state of Israel is "a light unto the nations, bringing salvation to the ends of the earth".
Since "salvation" came from Jesus, how is this statement reconciled, since the Jews don't believe in him?
In Christianity
In Christianity, Jesus is held to have fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, with the spread of Christianity around the world bringing the light of divine revelation to the gentiles.[3][4][5]
In the Gospel of Luke, Simeon is a devout old Jewish man to whom God had revealed that he would not die before seeing the Messiah.[6] Upon seeing the infant Jesus in the Temple, Simeon takes this promise to have been fulfilled.[7] His words, subsequently known as the Nunc Dimittis, identify Jesus with the light of the nations from Isaiah.[8] Simeon says; “Master, now you are dismissing your servant in peace, according to your word; for my eyes have seen your salvation, which you have prepared in the presence of all peoples, a light for revelation to the Gentiles and for glory to your people Israel.” Luke 2:29–32
In the Acts of the Apostles, Paul the Apostle draws on the prophecy of Isaiah in his preaching announcing Jesus as the Messiah Acts 13:47Acts 26:23. This has been related to Jesus' identification of himself with the light of the world in John's Gospel,[9] saying; "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." John 8:12
You can't reconcile Judaism and Christianity. Like you can't mix oil and water. You can, at the best, create an emulsion, what is suspension of tiny particles of oil in water, but on molecular level, they still do not mix.
Hence, the world will have to reject Jesus as moshiah and accept YHWH as one and only god, for prophecy to be fulfilled.
Take this as you wish. For over two thousand years, Jews could not reconcile with Yoshka. I do not believe, this is possible.
According to Judaism salvation comes from God and only God, so Netanyahu's understanding was that Jews would lead others back to God which would then allow salvation.
The State of Israel as a light unto the nations
In his writings and speeches, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion (1886–1973) emphasized his vision of the state of Israel as a moral and social beacon to the whole world, and by that, in his view, it shall implement the vision of the prophets.[13] The selection of the menorah as the Emblem of Israel was derived from the image of the state of Israel as a "Light Unto the Nations".[citation needed]
Israel's vision of "Light Unto the Nations" was reflected in the words of former Israeli Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu, in his address at the 2010 Herzliya Conference:
"You are dealing with our people's fate because it is clear today that the fate of the Jewish people is the fate of the Jewish state. There is no demographic or practical existence for the Jewish people without a Jewish state. This doesn't mean that the Jewish state does not face tremendous challenges, but our existence, our future, is here. The greatest change that came with the establishment of the Jewish state was that Jews became more than just a collection of individuals, communities and fragments of communities. They became a sovereign collective in their own territory. Our ability as a collective to determine our own destiny is what grants us the tools to shape our future—no longer as a ruled people, defeated and persecuted, but as a proud people with a magnificent country and one which always aspires to serve as 'Light Unto the Nations'."[
In his writings and speeches, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion (1886–1973) emphasized his vision of the state of Israel as a moral and social beacon to the whole world, and by that, in his view, it shall implement the vision of the prophets.[13] The selection of the menorah as the Emblem of Israel was derived from the image of the state of Israel as a "Light Unto the Nations".[citation needed]
Israel's vision of "Light Unto the Nations" was reflected in the words of former Israeli Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu, in his address at the 2010 Herzliya Conference:
"You are dealing with our people's fate because it is clear today that the fate of the Jewish people is the fate of the Jewish state. There is no demographic or practical existence for the Jewish people without a Jewish state. This doesn't mean that the Jewish state does not face tremendous challenges, but our existence, our future, is here. The greatest change that came with the establishment of the Jewish state was that Jews became more than just a collection of individuals, communities and fragments of communities. They became a sovereign collective in their own territory. Our ability as a collective to determine our own destiny is what grants us the tools to shape our future—no longer as a ruled people, defeated and persecuted, but as a proud people with a magnificent country and one which always aspires to serve as 'Light Unto the Nations'."[
Great so that's even less connected to any theological understanding of the verse and is therefore even more removed from an religious "salvation." Thanks for making my case.
Great so that's even less connected to any theological understanding of the verse and is therefore even more removed from an religious "salvation." Thanks for making my case.
It is abundantly obvious to me as someone coming to believe in God from completely outside of religion that religious thought is the unquestioned victim of human vanity and hubris writ large! The inescapable truth about God is that as humans we truly "Do not know what we do!!!" The encounter that erased my atheism also made clear to me that the Holy Spirit of God was described and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ (whoever He was).
I am convinced that the persona described as Jesus possessed the very Spirit of the God I encountered so I use the "mind of Christ" (who was at the very least an advanced Jewish Mystic) as MY guide to what God is like as described in the Bible and revealed in His reactions on the Cross (however, whyever, and whatever was the cause of it). It is the best source I have for which human interpretations and speculations are likely to be true or not. It works for me!
It is abundantly obvious to me as someone coming to believe in God from completely outside of religion that religious thought is the unquestioned victim of human vanity and hubris writ large! The inescapable truth about God is that as humans we truly "Do not know what we do!!!" The encounter that erased my atheism also made clear to me that the Holy Spirit of God was described and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ (whoever He was).
since bold above is stated view on "religious thought"
then that includes the paragraph below, because the paragraph below is "religious thought"
Quote:
I am convinced that the persona described as Jesus possessed the very Spirit of the God I encountered so I use the "mind of Christ" (who was at the very least an advanced Jewish Mystic) as MY guide to what God is like as described in the Bible and revealed in His reactions on the Cross (however, whyever, and whatever was the cause of it). It is the best source I have for which human interpretations and speculations are likely to be true or not. It works for me!
since bold above is stated view on "religious thought"
then that includes the paragraph below, because the paragraph below is "religious thought"
Your posts have been the reason I have taken to emphasizing "IMO" in my posts, Tzaph! Message received and implemented! Actually, I always assumed that was the case in a forum such as this. IMO, since Jesus was from the Jewish people, that makes Him the epitome of the "Light of the Nations."
It is abundantly obvious to me as someone coming to believe in God from completely outside of religion that religious thought is the unquestioned victim of human vanity and hubris writ large! The inescapable truth about God is that as humans we truly "Do not know what we do!!!" The encounter that erased my atheism also made clear to me that the Holy Spirit of God was described and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ (whoever He was).
I am convinced that the persona described as Jesus possessed the very Spirit of the God I encountered so I use the "mind of Christ" (who was at the very least an advanced Jewish Mystic) as MY guide to what God is like as described in the Bible and revealed in His reactions on the Cross (however, whyever, and whatever was the cause of it). It is the best source I have for which human interpretations and speculations are likely to be true or not. It works for me!
I found out recently that I'm one quarter Jew & am so intrigued, as my belief in God has strengthened thru the years, similar to what you describe, without a true practice of faith (Catholic is my family background).
I asked a very close friend of mine who is a fairly devout Jew, to clarify why they don't believe in Jesus. He told me I'm mistaken; the Jewish faithful very much believe Christ existed, they just don't believe he rose after 3 days and will come again. It was an important distinction he wanted me to understand, as he is very open to having future events possibly change his mind.
It is abundantly obvious to me as someone coming to believe in God from completely outside of religion that religious thought is the unquestioned victim of human vanity and hubris writ large! The inescapable truth about God is that as humans we truly "Do not know what we do!!!" The encounter that erased my atheism also made clear to me that the Holy Spirit of God was described and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ (whoever He was).
I am convinced that the persona described as Jesus possessed the very Spirit of the God I encountered so I use the "mind of Christ" (who was at the very least an advanced Jewish Mystic) as MY guide to what God is like as described in the Bible and revealed in His reactions on the Cross (however, whyever, and whatever was the cause of it). It is the best source I have for which human interpretations and speculations are likely to be true or not. It works for me!
so true ...
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It is abundantly obvious to me as someone coming to believe in God from completely outside of religion that religious thought is the unquestioned victim of human vanity and hubris writ large! The inescapable truth about God is that as humans we truly "Do not know what we do!!!" The encounter that erased my atheism also made clear to me that the Holy Spirit of God was described and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ (whoever He was). 
