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The "flawed statement" is the claim that Atheism is not a belief.
Even that "FAQ" in the A&A subforum states that Atheism is a Belief.
And it is definitively so: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/atheism
Everything and anything that anyone has considered and/or contemplated is a "Belief".
Only if you've never heard of something, or never considered it, could you not have a belief about it.
Atheists believe that there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of a God...even though the vast majority of the people in this world (4+ out of 5) do find there to be sufficient evidence.
It is important to get this straight, so it is possible to have a logical discussion and debate about it.
IT IS important to get your misconceptions and lies straight. Once again, it does not require blind faith to simply state that you do not believe in something. That is just ignorant. I don't know how much more simple we could make this for you Goldie, you've got a very closed and angry mind.
You obviously have no children, or weren't present during their birth. I don't suppose you like to watch a sunrise or sunset over the mountains, or enjoy watching two squirrels at play from your front porch. Maybe nobody has ever come to your need on a very bad day, or supported you through a life changing event. You've never seen a full moon and all the stars on a beautiful night, or made shapes of animals from puffy clouds. Have you watched a newborn elephant stand up for the first time or watched a Daddy give his daughter away at her wedding? A big bang can cause a comotion but it can't form all that.
Having you been living under a rock? I'm female and yes I do have children. What is all this crap? Just because I'm an atheist I can't possibly enjoy the nature and beauty of life without just assuming that something created it? Wow, are you ever misinformed. Once again, that's why I'm here is to dispel myths and lies about agnosticism and atheism.
Let me put it to you like this - just because we as humans have a beginning and an end, doesn't mean there is a beginning or end to anything else in the universe. Why did any of it have to be "created"? That's an assumption of mankind, not a fact. Maybe, all that exists (not created) has always been here. No beginning, no end.
Just think about it, you don't have to feel that I am right just that I have a different opinion. It's called expanding and opening your mind to other possibilities besides goddunit because you have no other explanation. After all, you don't have a definitive claim that there is a god, no proof.
On the flip side of the coin, neither do I. I freely admit I don't have all the answers, how bout you?
I was discussing this topic with my wife last night.
The whole theist,atheist,agnostic,faith, no faith conundrum
I have had an experience that changed my life. Prior to that, I don't honestly know what I was. Went to church as a kid. Parents were vague about any belief system. I quess I was agnostic. Maybe.
Didn't really think about.
My behavior could best be decribed as pagan
My experience is as if a loved one walked up behind you and stood there. You know someones there.
And like when you confide with a loved one, who says nothing, but you know they empathize, and want the best for you.
I knew it was "real", but not in a way my limited senses or language could ( or can ) articulate.
So.....my wife asks ( half joking ) prove it.
Obviously I can't
But I then pointed out times she has met someone at say the grocery store, and had a nice conversation. I could ask for the same proof.
I guess my point is, I fully understand the atheist and agnostic point of view. I know it. I had it.
My wife said most rational people would think I'm crazy. I understand.
It does sound crazy.
But I honestly have no better way to describe my faith.
Cool, cool, thanks for sharing. This is the kind of discussion I would like to have here. But that clearly isn't going to happen so I appreciate your candor. There is something to be said about personal experiences I will not be knocking that because as a christian I felt as though I had had one too. I think I went a little mad before I became an atheist, frenzied I guess would be a better word.
I just couldn't find my way through the muck that I had been taught. So, I think I dabbled in a little bit of everything and I can't really tell you when it happened, it just did. No more faith. Tired of questioning and living in fear of hell. For me, atheism released me from the religion bondage and extreme confusion.
I'm glad you're happy. We all have different paths we take and that includes belief or non-belief. Doesn't make anyone wrong, just different. Just imagine if we were all alike! Boring.
I do have a question, since you've given me permission.
Do you believe your more anti-religion, or anti-religious people?
It's my observation, that many "atheists" in particular share a resentment and distrust of religion and religious people. ( which I totally understand)
Okay. I'm not either, even though I said previously I would like for all of it to go away. I was mad about the recent overturning of something that had been in place for 50 years. What I would I like to see happen? More posts like the one you wrote that I just responded to. More tolerance. More acceptance. Less hostility from the religious towards the non-religious.
Less hostility from the non-religious towards the religious. I'm guilty of that but in my defense I'm usually just poking fun and being sarcastic. It's not perceived that way, though. I wish the religious would stop being so judgmental and holier-than-thou. I could go on and on, which I probably will.
If I distrusted or resented religious people I wouldn't have any family or friends. Seriously, I live in the Bible Belt. It ain't easy being different.
Okay. I'm not either, even though I said previously I would like for all of it to go away. I was mad about the recent overturning of something that had been in place for 50 years. What I would I like to see happen? More posts like the one you wrote that I just responded to. More tolerance. More acceptance. Less hostility from the religious towards the non-religious.
Less hostility from the non-religious towards the religious. I'm guilty of that but in my defense I'm usually just poking fun and being sarcastic. It's not perceived that way, though. I wish the religious would stop being so judgmental and holier-than-thou. I could go on and on, which I probably will.
If I distrusted or resented religious people I wouldn't have any family or friends. Seriously, I live in the Bible Belt. It ain't easy being different.
The burden is and always has been on the individual that makes the claim to provide proof.
.
Who is making any claim?
I believe in existence of God based on my faith; that does NOT require any evidence.
Whoever calls it a claim or still demands an evidence against this statement, is just plain ridiculous and seem to have a severe lack of reading and comprehension skills.
But anyway, lets get down to it.
The burden of proof is on the believers?
OK, tell me what would you consider as a scientific evidence of God?
I'd rather ask a Buddhist, or a Muslim, or a Hindi, or anyone else ready to sense the spiritual, than those fixated on shutting that off and tuning it out. Even then, it wouldn't be for any answer, but for a potentially broader perspective and scope to consider.
IT IS important to get your misconceptions and lies straight. Once again, it does not require blind faith to simply state that you do not believe in something. That is just ignorant. I don't know how much more simple we could make this for you Goldie, you've got a very closed and angry mind.
It would appear that it is you that has the misconceptions...and is lying.
Please show where I ever stated that "it requires blind faith to simply state that you do not believe in something".
I never said that, nor is that my view.
How did you come to ascribe that view to me?
I just noted that Atheism is a Belief Position...not a "Lack of Belief".
The FAQ in this very forum notes that it is a Belief...and it is defined as such (see links)....because it is, of course.
I also explain the fact that if someone has considered or contemplated something, that they necessarily have a belief about it. They could not logically "Lack Belief" about something they have considered and/or contemplated.
How is stating any of this indicative of a "very closed and angry mind"?
I believe in existence of God based on my faith; that does NOT require any evidence.
Whoever calls it a claim or still demands an evidence against this statement, is just plain ridiculous and seem to have a severe lack of reading and comprehension skills.
But anyway, lets get down to it.
The burden of proof is on the believers?
OK, tell me what would you consider as a scientific evidence of God?
You are right. If your belief is based in faith no evidence is required. However many other theists make claims that their belief is based in evidence, it is true and many other claims way beyond your based on faith claim.
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Boring.
As do I . . . in spades!!
