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The Hubble and James Webb Space Telescopes can observe the farthest reaches of our universe and detect billions upon billions of galaxies that are invisible to the naked eye.
The Hubble and James Webb Space Telescopes can observe the farthest reaches of our universe and detect billions upon billions of galaxies that are invisible to the naked eye.
And yet, there is no sign of God anywhere.
Does this change anybody's opinion?
Would it have recognized God if it found it? what kind of a sign do you suppose it would be?
Would it have recognized God if it found it? what kind of a sign do you suppose it would be?
Wow I just saw what pretty much confirms just how much you hate atheists. It runs so deep that you feel it necessary to advertise it under your moniker. You and those like you are why religions are losing ground. At least a few religions are accepting of and are welcoming to everyone.
Do you have all the answers because all the atheists I know don't claim to have all the answers to every question there is. I really feel like you think you actually do have all the answers. Well, do ya? Let's hear it.
Wow I just saw what pretty much confirms just how much you hate atheists. It runs so deep that you feel it necessary to advertise it under your moniker. You and those like you are why religions are losing ground. At least a few religions are accepting of and are welcoming to everyone.
Do you have all the answers because all the atheists I know don't claim to have all the answers to every question there is. I really feel like you think you actually do have all the answers. Well, do ya? Let's hear it.
The overwhelming negativity of some religionists is an ugly aspect of belief to many.
Wow I just saw what pretty much confirms just how much you hate atheists. It runs so deep that you feel it necessary to advertise it under your moniker.
It is worse than that, she had to straw man me quoting her just so she had something to attack with that quote.
The Hubble and James Webb Space Telescopes can observe the farthest reaches of our universe and detect billions upon billions of galaxies that are invisible to the naked eye.
And yet, there is no sign of God anywhere.
The telescope requires light to see, and the light it uses is temporal light, so the only infinity it can seek is complete darkness, as the end of sight. Not seeing anything past itself. By it's nature, it does not seek the beginning of sight, it seeks the end of sight.
The Shechinah is eternal light. And it is not empty light.
Last edited by chief scum; 05-21-2023 at 09:16 AM..
The Hubble and James Webb Space Telescopes can observe the farthest reaches of our universe and detect billions upon billions of galaxies that are invisible to the naked eye.
And yet, there is no sign of God anywhere.
Does this change anybody's opinion?
The farthest reaches of our observable universe. The universe is far larger than that part of the universe that we can see or ever will be able to see because light beyond our observable universe can never reach us due to the faster than light expansion of space itself.
If God exists and dwells in a 'spirit' realm, a different dimension if you will, rather than the physical realm that we exist in then why would you expect to be able to see signs of him through a telescope?
Then you are unlike many a Christian and/or religious person that insists they are 100% sure, because they have personally encountered God in some way. How do you explain them and not you then? Same as I do I suppose, but you lean toward thinking there must be a god given how I am understanding your comments and/or rationale. While my observations, learning and evaluations don't have me concluding anything of the sort. Accordingly, I'm in no way surprised I've not had any encounter with a god.
I think many Christians are not 100% sure. They just don't admit it. They go to church saying "I believe in God" but it is out of obligation. Deep down, I'm sure they have their doubts. Many Christians believe in God because they have to. Their pastor/priest told them to or their family told them to and they blindly say "I believe in God. God has done many great things in my life". But deep down, I think they also have questions about God as well. In my personal opinion, I do genuinely believe there is "something" out there that exists beyond our own selves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Another interesting bit of rationale to consider...
You are absolutely correct to explain the "what if" and/or the hypothetical can lead to more learning and often does. Often leads to further breakthroughs of knowledge, improvement and innovation!
“The most serious mistakes are not being made as a result of wrong answers. The true dangerous thing is asking the wrong question.†– Peter Drucker.
“Only the one who does not question is safe from making a mistake.†– Albert Einstein.
“The power to question is the basis of all human progress.†– Indira Gandhi.
To question is one thing however, and asking the right questions is important too, but this understanding or rationale doesn't go on to make a case about the existence of a god far as I can tell. Just because we can't answer a question to our satisfaction doesn't mean we should assume or conclude an answer that is not justified by the facts or evidence we have to consider.
Right again that objective critical thinking should not necessarily be a black or white scenario, or be limited by a black and white mindset, but there is what we can know and what we can't know (yet). How we should properly make those distinctions and address them.
Or..., what if there is actually a ghost living in my attic? Just because no one can conclusively prove whether a ghost lives in my attic or not, are we to conclude the possibility is just as likely as not likely? What if I drive my VW into a car wash and it might come out a Maserati? Please...
Good point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof
Oh, now you completely changed your tune.
From "after all this pondering and research, science still unable to come up with anything conclusive" which is very strong statement that implies that there have to be meaningful evidences for an existence of demons, God, angels, spirits, etc., you came down to very trivial and not very useful observation - different people have different opinions.
OK.
Science cannot answer the question "is there something else that is out there?" The current answer is "maybe/possibly".
But there is a lot of video recordings and testimonials from people who have encountered something "spiritual" that shows that there is "something" out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
It seems you are hung up on absolutes, which is something of a black and white, all or nothing sort of perspective...
No one can know with absolute certainty the earth will revolve around the sun another 24 hours and bring a new day for example. We have the facts, evidence, knowledge and understanding that convinces all of us "beyond a doubt" what we can rightfully conclude however. Well most of us anyway.
What to think, believe or conclude is all a matter of confidence levels, probabilities and verifiable facts that help us to establish what we SHOULD believe and/or not believe. Not assume. Or we don't make the sort of progress we humans have made since we first pondered the stars and hope to make into the future.
Since you are new here, you haven't read my "Ten Truths." I started a thread with that title a few years ago you might be interested to consider. My rationale about all this, and if you do pay a visit, by all means feel encouraged to post your thoughts about them in that thread. I'd be curious to know what you think, but "for God's sake" (pun intended), please don't get hung up on the title. Call them anything you like, but at least try to consider the point-by-point overall logic and reason without getting caught up in the weeds.
If interested in the weeds too, you'll see by reviewing the thread even just a bit that just about every weed has been addressed by me as best I've been able from the beginning.
I'll check out that thread, thanks. I'm not really hung up on absolutes. It all depends on the topic and scenario. A lot of people look at God as a black or white topic. Either God exists or God does not. I personally do not look at God as a black or white topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
I don't have a black and white mindset about the topic of god's existence. I simply have no justifiable basis to form a belief where there is zero evidence. I am not a black and white thinker because i don't think leprechauns exist. Give me a reason to think they do, and it would be different. On the other side of things -- the side where evidence exists -- I also am not a black and white thinker to be quite certain that the earth is a sphere, that Joe Biden is the current president, or that it's the year 2023 on the Gregorian calendar.
Like you, I don't claim to know that god doesn't exist, just as I can't claim to have been everywhere and everywhen such that I know for an absolute fact that leprechauns don't exist and have never existed. But ... I'm pretty sure they don't and I am not about to live my life just in case a fanciful hypothetical might be true or because of popular legends.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. In my opinion, "God" or whatever God may be, is a very fluid topic, not really black and white. I'm an evidence-driven guy but I do believe there are things that science does not yet have the capability to provide evidence for.
Would it have recognized God if it found it? what kind of a sign do you suppose it would be?
Interesting question. I'm thinking something like pearly gates...
More importantly I think it should simply be noted that nothing we've been able to observe suggests the existence of a god thing. Instead, believers like to focus on what is not visible, observable or provable as if the absence of such evidence is invite to imagine anything we like.
The farthest reaches of our observable universe. The universe is far larger than that part of the universe that we can see or ever will be able to see because light beyond our observable universe can never reach us due to the faster than light expansion of space itself.
If God exists and dwells in a 'spirit' realm, a different dimension if you will, rather than the physical realm that we exist in then why would you expect to be able to see signs of him through a telescope?
Indeed, although maybe it's like how we once couldn't see waves of energy that now we can see by way of means other than the human eye, but another good question...
Once we consider the existence of something in a different dimension or realm of existence other than our own, we are again free to imagine whatever we like, and so we do. As if we've got more justification to believe such things than we really do.
"Don't pee down my back and tell me it's raining" sort of thing...
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