Irrefutable Proof God Cares NOTHING about Christianity

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by mordant

I think it is a bit more, shall we say, widespread than you are admitting.

I could probably spend days curating distinct examples from media reports. Enough to make me suspect that the number that are bad actors, both those who have and haven't been caught yet, plus those struggling with similar impulses, make the odds of experiencing bad actors fairly high.

But that is not my basic objection to religion, because as you point out, it's not as if secular leaders have a spotless record -- although if religion were a positive force for better behavior, you'd think the religious would not be reduced to tu quoque fallacies to deflect from their own perfidies.

My basic objection is epistemological: religious faith is a failed and discredited epistemology, for which much better ones can be substituted. That religion doesn't unambiguously produce better people is just a side issue.

I think rational thinking based on valid evidence is a better theory of knowledge. This tends to lead away from, rather than towards, most forms of theism, but that is kind of beside the point. I would not advance atheism as a superior ideology because it isn't an ideology. It is an up or down belief position on a single topic. It is not a belief-system with rituals and men in dresses and odd hats and holy books and in-group/out-group strictures and elaborate dogmas. There is no one to put pressure on me to be a more devoted atheist because there's nothing to be devoted to. I either believe in god or I don't. There's no room to refine that or one-up anyone. If you disbelieve, your disbelief is no better or worse than the next person's.

By contrast if you believe in god(s) and you want the social advantages of some religious in-group then you are judged by others 24/7 on this "not for the faint of heart" thing that you speak of -- how (im)pious and (im)pure are you? How (in)correct are your beliefs? How well can you ignore the leaks in the abstractions and keep up your brave front?

I left that behind decades ago and don't miss it. YMMV.

We have people in this forum who -- if pressed -- will say this is a christian nation, and we have others who believe that, but don't say it. And then I read the newspaper or watch one of the cable news channels for a while...and that's all I need to know about this christian nation. It is a superficial facade.