Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Punishment and Religion are entirely human creations, as is the notion of "justice" which is beyond our reach. We cannot "repair" victims making any notion of "justice" moot. Punishment after the fact is vengeance and is believed to be a deterrent. It seldom is. There is some value in permanently removing some violent and dangerous members of society, but ironically death (as I see it) is hardly punishment. It moves us on to our actual life as Spirit, IMO.
The victims of an early death may not feel victimized at all. But those remaining behind definitely do. The vengeance aspect of punishment is for them, IMO. Despite the many imagined fates our humanity conjures, we cannot know what awaits us. But since I KNOW we are "born again" as Spirit there WILL be consequences from what we have BECOME in this life. That should be enough to rethink death and give us pause, IMO. However, few will believe me without their own experience of God. Perhaps it is one of Tzaph's "imaginary conundrums."
Punishment and Religion are entirely human creations, as is the notion of "justice" which is beyond our reach. We cannot "repair" victims making any notion of "justice" moot. Punishment after the fact is vengeance and is believed to be a deterrent. It seldom is. There is some value in permanently removing some violent and dangerous members of society, but ironically death (as I see it) is hardly punishment. It moves us on to our actual life as Spirit, IMO.
The victims of an early death may not feel victimized at all. But those remaining behind definitely do. The vengeance aspect of punishment is for them, IMO. Despite the many imagined fates our humanity conjures, we cannot know what awaits us. But since I KNOW we are "born again" as Spirit there WILL be consequences from what we have BECOME in this life. That should be enough to rethink death and give us pause, IMO. However, few will believe me without their own experience of God. Perhaps it is one of Tzaph's "imaginary conundrums."
I am with you all the way there, Mystic. Good post.
Punishment and Religion are entirely human creations, as is the notion of "justice" which is beyond our reach. We cannot "repair" victims making any notion of "justice" moot. Punishment after the fact is vengeance and is believed to be a deterrent. It seldom is. There is some value in permanently removing some violent and dangerous members of society, but ironically death (as I see it) is hardly punishment. It moves us on to our actual life as Spirit, IMO.
The victims of an early death may not feel victimized at all. But those remaining behind definitely do. The vengeance aspect of punishment is for them, IMO. Despite the many imagined fates our humanity conjures, we cannot know what awaits us. But since I KNOW we are "born again" as Spirit there WILL be consequences from what we have BECOME in this life. That should be enough to rethink death and give us pause, IMO. However, few will believe me without their own experience of God. Perhaps it is one of Tzaph's "imaginary conundrums."
I would say that life in prison is a fate worse than death, in most countries anyway, most definitely including the US. If the objective is vengeance, then even a botched death sentence is letting the perp off relatively easily. What is 10 minutes of burning vasculature over against decades of brutal prison conditions and zero hope?
I say that about anyone who thinks punishment exacts "justice." It ONLY exacts vengeance, period. Its supposed "deterrent effect" is virtually non-existent and it does NOTHING for the victims or those who love them except to sate their vengeance.
I say that about anyone who thinks punishment exacts "justice." It ONLY exacts vengeance, period. Its supposed "deterrent effect" is virtually non-existent and it does NOTHING for the victims or those who love them except to sate their vengeance.
Then answer my original question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horn of ‘83
So if your loved one is murdered, you’ll just “turn the other cheek”? You won’t seek justice?
I say that about anyone who thinks punishment exacts "justice." It ONLY exacts vengeance, period. Its supposed "deterrent effect" is virtually non-existent and it does NOTHING for the victims or those who love them except to sate their vengeance.
While I certainly understand the human desire for revenge - I occasionally express smidgins of those desires myself - the word 'justice' is most often used as a disguise for 'revenge'. Let's face it, what else? It's human to hit back at someone and desire that they be made to suffer just as they made someone else suffer. But what good does that do? Give you a temporary buzz? Is the perpetrator made aware that you are happy that they are suffering for causing the suffering of someone else? No. Nothing is accomplished here as far as personal feelings are concerned. This is why the impersonal law of the land has to be relied upon to enact 'justice'.
Don't think for one second that I don't express inner rage when I hear of someone being cruel to an animal. In that moment I want them eliminated from this world. Generally, people feel this way about cruelty to children - and of course it goes without saying that this should be abhorred - but children turn into adults, and they have the opportunity to deal with these things AS adults. Animals don't. That said, once the rage has subsided and reason returns, there IS a chance that that person eventually regrets all by his/herself the error of their ways and may do a complete turnaround. This would then change how I once felt about them.
I recall a TV program from many years ago entitled From Fury To Forgiveness. This involved four different people who had a horrendous thing happen that affected their lives ...the murder of a loved one. They went through the same processes that we all would go through under the same set of circumstances. The fury was therefore understandable, but the eventual forgiveness by 'the victim' that led to a complete life changing experience for the perpetrators was mind-blowing!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
