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Would you say my teachers failed me? Backing up to something you mentioned earlier concerning medicine, I won't stop using those things because of science. I acknowledge the limitations of science, not that I despise it. Viewing science in terms of medicine, there is also a devious side as well. Its possible a lot of cancer cases that come up in this day and age could be the result of the chemically engineered food we consume in the US. Perhaps for some of the things science has produced, it would be considered wisdom to stay away from.
All that said, when King Jesus comes back to the earth, in that day people will be living well pass 500 years old. Jesus will rule over the earth and the people will follow His laws. In that day, Jesus won't be operating according to science, but He will be operating according to omniscience! You will have to go back to school and get a degree from Zion University to become an omniscience teacher.
Last edited by Heavenese; 04-28-2024 at 04:28 PM..
Oh please, limitations are the human condition. But you believe the musings of our primitive ancient ancestors are our best source of knowledge about Reality???? I know our Reality itself is consciousness. I can believe their musings were the result of inspirations they tried to interpret and explain as best they could given their lack of valid knowledge of Reality. But come on! You are sadly mistaken if you think we have not evolved our capability to understand Reality in two millennia and counting.
The writers of the scriptures wrote by the leading of the Spirit of God. There is a human touch to it, as they wrote from their understanding. Overall in terms of science, it is almost a given that we will never find the absolute truth behind reality using it. In Quantum Mechanics, if you try to observe the smallest things in existence, the very observation causes it to change its nature. Its like reality itself is purposefully hiding its secrets.
Then you have the question of Dark Energy and Dark Matter. Stuff that makes up over 95% of the universe. According to science it passes through us and has no real interaction with matter as we know it. (Except it's gravitational effects) So how, HOW are we to know what reality is using such a limited method? I would argue the one real way to ever know everything, is if God exists and He tells us. Outside of that, everything falls short. Infinitely short. (Of course for you Mystic, I know you believe in a higher being, so you may agree with me in some of these points.)
people today, probably including yourself, use the phrases "sunrise" and "sunset."
the words sunrise and sunset are widely published in books and newspapers and encyclopedias.
therefore people today, yourself included believe that the sun moves and the earth does not. this is widely documented.
see how that logic is flawed?
I don't think there is a single person on the face of the earth (with the possible exception of Heavenese) that believes the sun moves and the earth doesn't. Using the term "sunrise" doesn't imply that the user thinks the sun is actually rising.
I don't think there is a single person on the face of the earth (with the possible exception of Heavenese) that believes the sun moves and the earth doesn't. Using the term "sunrise" doesn't imply that the user thinks the sun is actually rising.
yes, i agree. that is why the logic is flawed. it is going by printed words and charts in books. which when taken in isolation out of context do not accurately convey an understanding, and lead to flawed conclusions.
yes absolutely.
just like it is flawed logic to go by printed words and charts from ancient times. which when taken in isolation out of context do not accurately convey an understanding, and lead to flawed conclusions.
people today, probably including yourself, use the phrases "sunrise" and "sunset."
the words sunrise and sunset are widely published in books and newspapers and encyclopedias.
therefore people today, yourself included believe that the sun moves and the earth does not. this is widely documented.
see how that logic is flawed?
The ancient world, including the ancient Hebrews actually believed that there was a solid dome covering the earth because to the eye the sky appeared to be an inverted bowl over the earth. The sky was blue because of the water above the firmament. They had no reason to not believe what their eyes saw. Genesis one places the sun, moon, and stars IN the firmament (in the solid dome which covers the earth. Unlike modern science, the ancient peoples did NOT know that the sun was many millions of miles away. They thought the sun was a light that God had placed in the solid dome (firmament).
The ancient world, including the ancient Hebrews actually believed that there was a solid dome covering the earth because to the eye the sky appeared to be an inverted bowl over the earth. The sky was blue because of the water above the firmament. They had no reason to not believe what their eyes saw. Genesis one places the sun, moon, and stars IN the firmament (in the solid dome which covers the earth. Unlike modern science, the ancient peoples did NOT know that the sun was many millions of miles away. They thought the sun was a light that God had placed in the solid dome (firmament).
If God told the people the sun was millions of miles away, how would they comprehend it? If God told the people the planets they see in the sky weren't the same in nature as the fixed stars around them, how would they understand it?
The people spoke as they understood what they were seeing. So they weren't wrong, but were describing things that did in fact exist. There are no scriptures speaking about the world resting on a turtle, or a giant holding it up. Yet as for pillars, that is not a problem because a pillar is what they used to describe how the world was fixed, and the things around the world were fixed. Today we can call this gravity if we want. A force that upholds the universe (among other scientific forces).
All that said, you accuse the ancient Israelites being "wrong" due to their observation. You can accept why that is, but you don't see how science is ultimately wrong because of that very limitation? The major difference between the ancients world view and scientists acceptance of the world through methodological approach, is scientists rely 100% on limited observation. The ancients credited God, the One who truly knows the origin of everything. He is the origin.
Would you say my teachers failed me? Backing up to something you mentioned earlier concerning medicine, I won't stop using those things because of science. I acknowledge the limitations of science, not that I despise it. Viewing science in terms of medicine, there is also a devious side as well. Its possible a lot of cancer cases that come up in this day and age could be the result of the chemically engineered food we consume in the US. Perhaps for some of the things science has produced, it would be considered wisdom to stay away from.
All that said, when King Jesus comes back to the earth, in that day people will be living well pass 500 years old. Jesus will rule over the earth and the people will follow His laws. In that day, Jesus won't be operating according to science, but He will be operating according to omniscience! You will have to go back to school and get a degree from Zion University to become an omniscience teacher.
You're just making excuses for thinking that belongs back in the 1800s or earlier...in regard to science...and religious thinking that belongs back in the 1500s.
What you ought to start thinking about is that silly fables, but principles. And it's odd to me how rarely christians on this forum talk about principles, but instead spend their time trying to prove things that can never be proven.
If God told the people the sun was millions of miles away, how would they comprehend it? If God told the people the planets they see in the sky weren't the same in nature as the fixed stars around them, how would they understand it?
The people spoke as they understood what they were seeing. So they weren't wrong, but were describing things that did in fact exist. There are no scriptures speaking about the world resting on a turtle, or a giant holding it up. Yet as for pillars, that is not a problem because a pillar is what they used to describe how the world was fixed, and the things around the world were fixed. Today we can call this gravity if we want. A force that upholds the universe (among other scientific forces).
All that said, you accuse the ancient Israelites being "wrong" due to their observation. You can accept why that is, but you don't see how science is ultimately wrong because of that very limitation? The major difference between the ancients world view and scientists acceptance of the world through methodological approach, is scientists rely 100% on limited observation. The ancients credited God, the One who truly knows the origin of everything. He is the origin.
Good grief, they were wrong. They had a wrong understanding of the cosmos and that wrong belief is contained in the Bible. The Bible puts forth a wrong understanding of the cosmos. What do you not understand about this?
Good grief, they were wrong. They had a wrong understanding of the cosmos and that wrong belief is contained in the Bible. The Bible puts forth a wrong understanding of the cosmos. What do you not understand about this?
It's difficult to put an exact year that the bible was written, but as I understand it the earliest parts of the bible were written about 3,500 years ago. So let's see, our other poster is aligning himself with what people wrote into and read into the bible for people who, for the most part, didn't even have a first grade education. Seems about right.
It's difficult to put an exact year that the bible was written, but as I understand it the earliest parts of the bible were written about 3,500 years ago. So let's see, our other poster is aligning himself with what people wrote into and read into the bible for people who, for the most part, didn't even have a first grade education. Seems about right.
The people who wrote Scripture, I believe were generally "smarter" than most people today. Many of them could speak multiple languages, and they knew how to survive the harsh environments. Many of us would fold like a cheap suit if we lived in the conditions they did. Though ultimately these who were ignorant about what we know today, and those who trust what they passed along (the scriptures), I believe will be given ultimate knowledge that scientists search so desperately for. They will know why we exist and who we are.
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Backing up to something you mentioned earlier concerning medicine, I won't stop using those things because of science. I acknowledge the limitations of science, not that I despise it. Viewing science in terms of medicine, there is also a devious side as well. Its possible a lot of cancer cases that come up in this day and age could be the result of the chemically engineered food we consume in the US. Perhaps for some of the things science has produced, it would be considered wisdom to stay away from.
