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Thank you for that summary. I realize a lot of depth will be lost as this medium is inadequate, but stiil may I ask:
True God. How did he know the True God from the pagan god?
He may not have known that the God who was calling Him was the True God (the Creator of all things) until he met the Priest-King Melchizedek, who was a priest of the True God (Genesis 14). The Biblical account of Abraham begins in the book of Genesis, chapter 11.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Is the birth of Jesus to Mary the rift of Christianity from Abraham?
There is no rift between Christianity and Abraham. Abraham is a Christian. As Jesus said, "Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad." (John 8:56)
He may not have known that the God who was calling Him was the True God (the Creator of all things) until he met the Priest-King Melchizedek, who was a priest of the True God (Genesis 14). The Biblical account of Abraham begins in the book of Genesis, chapter 11. There is no rift between Christianity and Abraham. Abraham is a Christian. As Jesus said, "Abraham your father rejoiced that he might see my day: he saw it, and was glad." (John 8:56)
If a Christian states Abraham was a Christian,
even though Christianity did not exist, and was not invented until 1,800 years after Abraham lived
then they must also be OK with
when a Muslim states Jesus (Issa) was a Muslim.
Even though Islam did not exist, and was not invented until 600 years after Jesus lived.
it is the identical same logic and strategy.
if you accept one of those statements above then both scenarios are accepted.
if you reject one of those statements, then both scenarios are rejected.
Abraham is the first Jew and the founder of Judaism. He was born 3,800 years ago.
That is how old Judaism is.
Christianity has been around about 2,000 years.
Jesus is considered the founder.
Christianity took the scripture from Judaism, and changed it, and added on to it.
Islam has been around about 1,400 years.
Muhammad is considered the founder.
Islam took the scripture from both Judaism and Christianity, and changed it and added on to it.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-20-2024 at 10:14 AM..
Christianity has been around about 2,000 years.
Jesus is considered the founder.
Christianity took the scripture from Judaism, and added on to it.
We would say that Jesus established a New Covenant with mankind; not that He "added" anything to a religion.
I have no problem saying that Christianity began when this New Covenant was established; but it would be incorrect to say that it was wholly something new. Rather, it is in perfect continuity with the religion of Abraham.
We would say that Jesus established a New Covenant with mankind; not that He "added" anything to a religion.
I have no problem saying that Christianity began when this New Covenant was established; but it would be incorrect to say that it was wholly something new. Rather, it is in perfect continuity with the religion of Abraham.
then it follows of course using that identical logic and strategy, that Muhammad likewise established a new covenant with mankind.
And of course it follows that Islam is in perfect continuity with the religion of Jesus.
right? because that is what the logic used in post above is affirming.
can't have one without the other.
either both are accepted, or both are rejected. because the logic is identical.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-20-2024 at 10:39 AM..
We would say that Jesus established a New Covenant with mankind; not that He "added" anything to a religion. I have no problem saying that Christianity began when this New Covenant was established; but it would be incorrect to say that it was wholly something new. Rather, it is in perfect continuity with the religion of Abraham.
The religion of Abraham is Judaism.
and if someone anyone feels that Christianity is a continuation, then that logic carries within it the recognition that Islam is a continuation of Christianity.
then it follows of course using that identical logic and strategy, that Muhammad likewise established a new covenant with mankind.
And of course you accept that Islam is in perfect continuity with the religion of Jesus.
right? because that is what the logic used in post above is affirming.
This is not a question of logic.
Muhammad made no claim of establishing a new covenant with mankind. Muhammad claimed to be a prophet of the True God.
and if someone anyone feels that Christianity is a continuation, then that logic carries within it the recognition that Islam is a continuation of Christianity.
see how that works?
Christianity is a continuation of the Hebrew religion. It is either a legitimate continuation, or a deformity/aberration of it.
The same goes for Islam. It is either a legitimate continuation of Christianity, or a deformity/aberration of it.
Christianity is a continuation of the Hebrew religion. It is either a legitimate continuation, or a deformity/aberration of it. The same goes for Islam. It is either a legitimate continuation of Christianity, or a deformity/aberration of it.
you don't decide that though for other people. you decide that for yourself.
and other people decide that for themselves.
so if you reject Islam for instance, then you understand why people reject Christianity.
because another religion makes more sense to them.
the beauty of belonging to a religion that does not proselytize, is not having to try and convince anyone of anything. but rather respecting the inherent dignity and ability each person has to decide for themself their own chosen path of religion and spirituality. without having to resort to using denigrating pejoratives such as "deformity" and "aberration" and "not legitimate"
you don't decide that though for other people. you decide that for yourself.
and other people decide that for themselves.
so if you reject Islam for instance, then you understand why people reject Christianity.
because another religion makes more sense to them.
the beauty of belonging to a religion that does not proselytize, is not having to try and convince anyone of anything. but rather respecting the inherent dignity and ability each person has to decide for themself their own chosen path of religion and spirituality. without having to resort to using denigrating pejoratives such as "deformity" and "aberration" and "not legitimate"
Surely you realize that when religions make claims that contradict one another, that both cannot be correct...
I have no respect for a religion that refuses to recognize this, as it strikes me as cowardly. Take a stand, Tzap. We can't all be "on the right path".
you don't decide that though for other people. you decide that for yourself.
and other people decide that for themselves.
so if you reject Islam for instance, then you understand why people reject Christianity.
because another religion makes more sense to them.
the beauty of belonging to a religion that does not proselytize, is not having to try and convince anyone of anything. but rather respecting the inherent dignity and ability each person has to decide for themself their own chosen path of religion and spirituality. without having to resort to using denigrating pejoratives such as "deformity" and "aberration" and "not legitimate"
Excellent post!
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