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I focused on and developed three areas: (1) vocabulary (2) support for that vocabulary (3) be patient for lack of understanding the first two.
When my daughter came home and said that other children were saying that Jesus is real, we said that was a belief. We started introducing concepts like claims, opinions, and testable claims, but told her to be careful not to try to teach others because of the risk of using the wrong language and/or poor delivery. It takes skill to pacify people who make superficial statements.
People respond better to "belief" than to "opinion or false", or they respond better to "testable" than to "fact." The Bible is often used as "fact" or "observable" in response to being told, "Well, you can't see God." Our approach is that the whole point of belief is to not test, which leaves out the key part of questioning. So while we taught her the difference between belief and testable, she was informed that others do not dive deep into the meaning of these words or into the meaning of their own words.
Therefore, it is better to respect their beliefs and consider their comments as information rather than persuasion and to treat them like any other comment. If she found it boring, then she needed social skills to deal with it which includes behaving in a way that makes you less of a target for those types of discussions. She was in a diverse environment so she didn't have to play nice and go along with what other children said, but she needed to be respectful by knowing how to play along if she found herself in the middle of it.
My daughter was 13 when she had made a new friend. Her friend asked her to go to their church with her. I said sure but i was a bit uneasy not knowing what kind of church. When she came back she said it was a weird experience, and soon the girl and her mother moved and that was that. My son attended the chapel that was in his school grounds quite often. It was also a lecture hall when they had visiting lecturers and was open to the public. When he moved to NY he learnt to do the namaz. He is married to a non-religious woman, maybe agnostic.
My daughter married a Christian, in a sort of Hindu-Christian ceremony. Their children are not baptized. They are growing up just as my children did, mostly Hindu although they dont know it :-)
We have raised our kids not religious, but not atheist in that we haven't discussed our atheism with them. We discuss religion when it naturally comes up such as when there is conflict in the world.
I'll be honest I suspect my kids are all atheist like me but I don't know for sure because religion/god is not something that seems to concern them so it wouldn't occur to me to ask them. They're all at University now, one just about the graduate with honors from a fantastic institution and I couldn't be prouder of all of them. They're the best and kindest people you could wish to meet. They have great friend groups. and are living their best lives. They have no need for religion.
I would not impose my will on my children. Or on other people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
Of course you would impose your will on your children, that is if you care anything about them.
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Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
Because we sometimes need to impose our will on our children. Do you impose your will on your children all the time?
I was responding to the poster above who made an absolutist statement re: imposing her will on her children.
It should be obvious and should not need to be qualified that of course no parent could or should impose his will on his children literally all the time.
In my business I heard several parents -- parents who physically abused their children (not to mention their wives) who said pretty much the same thing.
So what's your point? You're accusing me of being a child/spousal abuser?
It's interesting how insecure you are about your own religion.
This is nothing but projection from someone who is so insecure about his religion that he has radically changed camps multiple times and still doesn't have a home.
I draw the line as long as my children are still living in my home and under my care. When they move out and start their own lives, they will be responsible for whatever choices they make. All I can do is provide them with a solid foundation to build on. It's my duty to do that. I owe it both to them and to God who gave my children to me and placed them under my care.
While they are living in your house they have to physically live by your rules. No problem, of course.
But you cant control what is going on in their heads.
They have lives beyond your 4 walls and will make their own decisions regardless. They presumably have friends, watch the news, go to school or college or work, talk to other people. They'll be making their own choices right now, even as they are living with you.
What are your thoughts and experiences on religion, spirituality, and children? This could pertain to the children in your life—whether your own offspring, or that of close friends or family, or young people you encounter in your chosen vocation, etc. etc. This could also relate to your own experiences as children.
I think about this more as my son has gotten older and begun asking questions—particularly about what happens when we die. And in a few years, I’m sure my newborn daughter will begin to ponder the same things.
Although I’m an atheist and am not much into rote religious ritual (I say that only objectively, not judgmentally), I have a very strong Jewish ethnocultural identity and hope that my children will feel similarly about their Jewish heritage—although the choice is ultimately theirs and theirs alone.
I actually don’t care one whit if they do or don’t believe in a higher power. I don’t think it would be wrong to have a preference (as most people do). I’m just truly indifferent on the matter. As long as they don’t turn into religious fanatics, I have no issue with them believing in the underlying concept of religion. Nor would I want them to be #AtheistEdgelords of the Richard Dawkins variety.
I’ll share more as others chime in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief scum
Concerning the bolded. When your children are aware of being born and then also become aware of Death. The nature of the question is asking if there is anything beyond you.
When Samuel went to the house of Jesse to anoint the king, David's parents overlooked him. And Samuel had to ask, are there any children beyond who you have presented...
...Which David relates in Psalm (paraphrasing by memory) though my father and mother forsake me, yet the Lord has received me.
When you look at David's heritage in the line of Judah, you see that Leah sought for Jacob to love her in the birth of their first three sons and when Judah was born she named him Judah giving "Praise" to God, knowing that God loved her and did not overlook her. And that heritage is also found in David, a man after God's own heart...
...I could go into more concerning when Israel blessed his children before passing.
I responded to the OP with the post above because in your post you mentioned having a strong Jewish ethnocultural identity. I chose to show the respect of giving you a response in your thread even though on another thread you accused me of antisemitism, through quoting and responding to a post that called me that, rather than directly. Without even understanding what I was saying, while the post I wrote above is along the same lines of what I was saying in that post.
I don't need anything from the people here when I share, I just hope they take a moment to humble themselves and truly listen. Knowing the intertwining of scripture and a life that is lived, which is how I relate to Jesus Christ and seeing me through it all.
I was both blessed and cursed to an extreme as a child, and it takes a long time for a child to sort through all that and understand it. When I graduated from high school my dad was very sick from an operation that went bad and no one from my family attended my graduation and right after I turned 19 my dad died. I shared something in post #678 on the "give me a sign, please" thread about leaving my dad and then grandmothers funeral, about opening an awareness that there is more than all this.
Before God opened my eyes I went through a period of time where people I thought were my best friends used what appeared to be blessings to then use as a curse upon me as some fool. Just as the Satan did in his beguiling lie. And I am now so very thankful to know the one who sees me through it all, even my own pride.
The parental advice that I would give is to be straight and honest with your children to best of your ability. So that even if they choose the path of rebellion, after that nature has run its course they will return to you in there time and need, because you didn't give them all the lying BS that the world does.
In my childhood, I ended of selling myself out just so I could be with my friends. Walking through the blessings and curses to the extreme. In the third grade during PE we played the game called round-up. We had to run from one base to the other about 50 yards apart, with 5 people in between that had to tag us, and then we were out. When it got down to a few of us left, the whole class was yelling for them to get me, and then it got whittled down to just me. I ran from one base to the other untouched, with the whole class yelling to get me, then I did it again and the teacher called the game. I remember that strange feeling, everyone was against me and yet I was free and uncorralled...
In my 4th grade math class the teacher gave a very hard math test, and after grading the papers she says to the whole class that everyone failed the test except me and that I only got two answers wrong. So, by the time I got into middle school I wrote down wrong answers on purpose and got failing grades on purpose, and by the time I got to high school I was put in learning disability classes and I played no sports. So, I chose to be a failure on purpose, and when graduation was nearing I had to turn it back on and I remember in record keeping class the teacher put all our scores on the chaulk board with no names, and I got many 100s and the kids were like who got the 100. I didn't say anything but the girl sitting next to me would blurt it out, and I'm sure it was a bit confusing to the other kids, because I wasn't the type.
I have so many life stories and when God opened my eyes I was taken through my life and it was sorted out for me as I began to understand so many things in my life that I had to deal with that just didn't make any sense. And at this point in my life, acceptance in this world is no longer my driver. Doing what is right is, because in this world people will reject you for both success and failure...
...I like what God said to Abram, (paraphrasing from heart memory) Fear not, I am your reward your very great reward. I am thankful to have someone to be answerable, because for 28 years I was answerable to no one. And though I have to accept the rod of correction, I do so knowing that God is not my accuser. As I walk through a world where more people look for a reason to hate me than look for a reason to love me.
I did take many shop classes which did end up benefitting me when I had to start working for a living. Abraham knew God as God Most High, while also knowing God as walking with him and seeing him through it all.
I am aware that you call yourself an Atheist and how you raise your child is your business. I like that ( I think it was Eli the priest) whose own children were a bit corrupt, if I remember correctly. Did not stand in the way of Samuel hearing God's calling, rather had within himself that awareness. He didn't choose to place himself between God and God's calling of the child Samuel. If he had chosen to tell the child Samuel that it was just his imagination then he would have placed himself at odds with God as if there was nothing beyond him.
The default setting in our society (USA) is one of Christian belief for 80% of us.
A kid will be heavily exposed to it somewhere someplace during their early and formative years assuming they aren't part of certain ethnic enclaves.
For me it is almost better for a kid to grow up feeling comfortable with this belief system simply because being in it and participating in it is the easiest path you can take. And many people are perfectly happy being in that space.
To change ones default belief to something else besides Christianity requires some examination and reflection. Thereby I believe it comes by more honestly. Nobody is coercing little kids to be non believers for the most part. There are no "vacation atheism" schools.
If a kid grows up and as an adult still wants the "Jesus" security blanket... then that is fine.
But Christians don't allow those of us that were willing to examine this thing and reject it without getting stuff like this thrown at us...
Quote:
Anti religious sentiment is caused by a person not acknowledging their own internal struggles. It indicates a spiritual void in their soul.
Nothing could be further from the truth for most of us. The internal struggle with what we are taught and what we see as reality as well as a rigorous examination of the history and circumstances surrounding the religion we were brought up with... that is actually the CAUSE of the so called "spiritual void". Resolving how we feel about all that actually RELEIVES the internal struggle.
Last edited by eddie gein; 05-14-2024 at 09:26 AM..
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