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Even if it were real, wouldn't it have rotted away already?
Unless it's petrified or something.
How many wooden things are left, from thousands and thousands of years ago. Untreated wood.
Come on.
In the Bible God had Noah put pitch on both the inside of the Ark, and the outside. Pitch can act as both a sealer, and a preservative. All that have seen the Ark up close, claim it is encased in ice. And they also report that that the wood that the Ark was made of, is as hard as stone.
That's wrong. Now you are making stuff up, again. If that were the case, the dove bringing it back to the Ark would have been meaningless. There would be no significance behind the dove bringing back the olive leaf since it could have just been floating on the water, during the entire time of flooding, with no indication that water had subsided at all, and nothing would have prevented the raven from bringing some leaves back to Noah, the first time. No, it is obvious where it came from.
Let's look at the verse, why don't we.
Do you see that? This was not from an uprooted olive branch that had been soaking and floating around in saltwater for a few months, and killing it. No, it was "freshly plucked" from an olive tree, which only grew in the foot hills. Now, can you come up with a scenario of an ark climbing up to this ludicrous elevation you suggest, after the water has subsided to below the foot hills?
Q.E.D. What you are looking at in those photos is not the Ark. Scripture reveals that. You suffer from what ailed Ron Wyatt, "believing-is-seeing-ism."
Well Genesis 8:8,9 tell us that Noah sent out a dove, yet it could find no place to (set its feet), and because of this, it returned to the Ark. And when Noah did this a second time. The dove did return to the Ark with a freshly plucked olive leaf, and in that part your are correct. However, I might point out, that this event occured over eleven months after the rains stopped. And so, because of the passage of so many months, this occurance would not require a magic tree. And I might point out also that Olive trees can be found growing on mountains. And in some cases, the have been found growing almost a half a mile above sea level.
Last edited by Campbell34; 06-15-2009 at 10:47 PM..
Maybe they evolved from the Ark animals...DOH!!!!!
Oh c'mon now, Fullback. Remember: if the Ark story is true, then Evolution didn't happen. If it's true, then everything we have on this planet now that was not sea-water acquatic and flood proof was represented on that Ark.
So... let's have the next in the near-endless series of impossibilities: The authors of this nifty bit of comedy also say that we had 40 days & 40 nights of rain.
(a) the calculations, done by someone else but quite rational & accurate, calculated a very conservative volume for enough water to flood over Mt. Everest (28,000 ft ASL). The commenter even adjusted the volume down by 20% just to make it as possible as could be.
The volume was, well, shall we say quite large, and the necessary precip. rate was, if I recall correctly, about 30 inches PER MINUTE. Over the entire world, at the same time. Like standing under a fire hose.
That's a lot of water in the clouds, in fact meteorologists (that's weather study, not meteors, Tom...) say that no clouds can carry that much water, and how would it be replenished when it's normally slowly replenished by evaloration of the ocean and land and then dropped elsewhere later. But this was a completely involved continguous and constant global downpour. Oh, and how does water evaporate off a surface being deluged at this impossible rate anyhow?
(b) A half mile is 2640 feet. So down there is an un-covered put throughly dead olive tree. Our strong dove plucks off a branch and flies back up to where it's too high for him to breath, and delivers it to Noah who was accidentally hung up on the rocks at the ≈15,000 foot ASL level with a barge full of very hungry animals and plants he won't let those vegans near.
Conclusion: improbable, likely impossible.
(c) Those impossible rains, being fresh water (rain ALWAYS is) would have diluted the ocean's salinity to about 60% of what it was pre-flood, thereby significantly altering the oceanic chemistry in which the sea animals and plants grew up in. You know, as God perfectly designed them to be able to endure and enjoy b ut within very specific chemical boundaries.
Therefore, most everything in the oceans, all the fish that were intended to survive without a free Ark ride, died. Jellyfish, for example, which are still here today, are especially sensitive to salinity. And yet, oddly, they did not die.
Conclusion: impossible.
(d) Subsequent salt contamination of original would have made them useless as a vegetation growing medium until all the salt left there by evaporation was leached out by years of rain. But also, that leaching salt would have accumulated in all the drainage basins, so that for years the fresh mountain streams would have been salty mountain streams, and no mammals nor birds nor invertebrates that are all here now would have been able to drink the contaminated water in streams or ponds or lakes. No fish would be able to spawn in them.
Conclusion: chemically (& logically) impossible.
(e) There would have been some salt layer deposition in all major lakes, captured in the bottom layers. But, oddly, we show none, and this all happend only ≈3000 yrs ago. Yet "varve" analysis by core samples of lake bottom depositions from over 100,000 years (oooppsss), which I actually conducted myself, never showed any such salt deposits.
Conclusion: this salty post-flood deposition never happened because, well you get it....
(f) When people speak metaphorically about preservative treatments making wood "as hard as steel" it's not to be taken literally, C34! For instance, when I worked in a sawmill when I was going to University, we used a special very hard, dense imported exotic wood (heavy as h$ll, certainly not ever used in building boats. boat anchors maybe, but never boats!). We called it "iron wood" for it's wear properties when it was teated with some special oil, and it was used in places as a "slip". The old timers said, metaphorically, "Wears better'n iron, thet there wood!"
But in all honesty, and being realistic for at least a moment here, if I'd fired a rifle at it, it would have given in to the intense point pressure that a bullet generates. Bulletproof wood? Why then did this boat break into three parts? And why didn't the '90s remote sensing systems indicate anything but basalt / limestone?
What we have here is an urban myth created by a devout and "I-Really-Wanna-Believe" type. So, he did.
WE do not have supernatural wood here. If that was what was needed, why wouldn't God just have given Noah some titanium or aluminum hull sheeting? Certainly a coating of pitch, which is a natural plant oil-like material, often softens the wood it's applied to, rather than turning it into super-wood. Had God not invented those materials yet?
Better yet, why did he go to all this trouble? Why not just "Poof" all the bad organisms to h$ll directly? And what constitutes a bad animal? Or, why not create the Noah's Hot Air Balloon? Well, of course because the authors had no inkling of lighter-than-air craft back then.
But of course God would have known this, and yet he ignored it, and so many other perfectly useful magic tricks He could have used to save the world from all this saltiness and saturation.
Gosh, He doesn't seem so nice to animals or plants after all.... "All god's Loving Creatures"???
Anyhow, what we have here is an endless stream of irrational, illogical and impossible technicalities, piled nose-deep on top of each other.
Tom, is your sunken ship by chance filled with gold?
Remember, there's more good evidence for Santa Claus than there is for the Ararat Ark. Plus, as I noted, others who are actually in the business are now looking elsewhere. Why do that, for heaven's sake, if Christians everywhere are so convinced that your Ark is The Ark?
It might have 50,000 in gold coins, as some believed back in 1895.
I don't know why anyone would look for the the Ark anywhere else but near the top of Mt. Ararat. The Bible pretty much tells you where to look. And all the Ark sightings have been near the top of that mountain. To my knowledge, there's been no real historical accounts of Santa Claus sightings near the North Pole. There have been many sightings of the Ark on Mt. Ararat.
When are you guys going to realise that logic means nothing to a person like C34.
For him to acknowledge any of the overwhelming evidence that proves that evolution is why life occured on this planet, would mean Genesis is a lie.
For him, a 900 houndred year old man skippering a boat that would have broken it's own back ( according to the biblical dimensions ) in 28,000ft of water, with every species of insect, bird, dinosaur,& mammal etc on the planet, is completely plausable.
Oh c'mon now, Fullback. Remember: if the Ark story is true, then Evolution didn't happen. If it's true, then everything we have on this planet now that was not sea-water acquatic and flood proof was represented on that Ark.
So... let's have the next in the near-endless series of impossibilities: The authors of this nifty bit of comedy also say that we had 40 days & 40 nights of rain.
(a) the calculations, done by someone else but quite rational & accurate, calculated a very conservative volume for enough water to flood over Mt. Everest (28,000 ft ASL). The commenter even adjusted the volume down by 20% just to make it as possible as could be.
The volume was, well, shall we say quite large, and the necessary precip. rate was, if I recall correctly, about 30 inches PER MINUTE. Over the entire world, at the same time. Like standing under a fire hose.
That's a lot of water in the clouds, in fact meteorologists (that's weather study, not meteors, Tom...) say that no clouds can carry that much water, and how would it be replenished when it's normally slowly replenished by evaloration of the ocean and land and then dropped elsewhere later. But this was a completely involved continguous and constant global downpour. Oh, and how does water evaporate off a surface being deluged at this impossible rate anyhow?
(b) A half mile is 2640 feet. So down there is an un-covered put throughly dead olive tree. Our strong dove plucks off a branch and flies back up to where it's too high for him to breath, and delivers it to Noah who was accidentally hung up on the rocks at the ≈15,000 foot ASL level with a barge full of very hungry animals and plants he won't let those vegans near.
Conclusion: improbable, likely impossible.
(c) Those impossible rains, being fresh water (rain ALWAYS is) would have diluted the ocean's salinity to about 60% of what it was pre-flood, thereby significantly altering the oceanic chemistry in which the sea animals and plants grew up in. You know, as God perfectly designed them to be able to endure and enjoy b ut within very specific chemical boundaries.
Therefore, most everything in the oceans, all the fish that were intended to survive without a free Ark ride, died. Jellyfish, for example, which are still here today, are especially sensitive to salinity. And yet, oddly, they did not die.
Conclusion: impossible.
(d) Subsequent salt contamination of original would have made them useless as a vegetation growing medium until all the salt left there by evaporation was leached out by years of rain. But also, that leaching salt would have accumulated in all the drainage basins, so that for years the fresh mountain streams would have been salty mountain streams, and no mammals nor birds nor invertebrates that are all here now would have been able to drink the contaminated water in streams or ponds or lakes. No fish would be able to spawn in them.
Conclusion: chemically (& logically) impossible.
(e) There would have been some salt layer deposition in all major lakes, captured in the bottom layers. But, oddly, we show none, and this all happend only ≈3000 yrs ago. Yet "varve" analysis by core samples of lake bottom depositions from over 100,000 years (oooppsss), which I actually conducted myself, never showed any such salt deposits.
Conclusion: this salty post-flood deposition never happened because, well you get it....
(f) When people speak metaphorically about preservative treatments making wood "as hard as steel" it's not to be taken literally, C34! For instance, when I worked in a sawmill when I was going to University, we used a special very hard, dense imported exotic wood (heavy as h$ll, certainly not ever used in building boats. boat anchors maybe, but never boats!). We called it "iron wood" for it's wear properties when it was teated with some special oil, and it was used in places as a "slip". The old timers said, metaphorically, "Wears better'n iron, thet there wood!"
But in all honesty, and being realistic for at least a moment here, if I'd fired a rifle at it, it would have given in to the intense point pressure that a bullet generates. Bulletproof wood? Why then did this boat break into three parts? And why didn't the '90s remote sensing systems indicate anything but basalt / limestone?
What we have here is an urban myth created by a devout and "I-Really-Wanna-Believe" type. So, he did.
WE do not have supernatural wood here. If that was what was needed, why wouldn't God just have given Noah some titanium or aluminum hull sheeting? Certainly a coating of pitch, which is a natural plant oil-like material, often softens the wood it's applied to, rather than turning it into super-wood. Had God not invented those materials yet?
Better yet, why did he go to all this trouble? Why not just "Poof" all the bad organisms to h$ll directly? And what constitutes a bad animal? Or, why not create the Noah's Hot Air Balloon? Well, of course because the authors had no inkling of lighter-than-air craft back then.
But of course God would have known this, and yet he ignored it, and so many other perfectly useful magic tricks He could have used to save the world from all this saltiness and saturation.
Gosh, He doesn't seem so nice to animals or plants after all.... "All god's Loving Creatures"???
Anyhow, what we have here is an endless stream of irrational, illogical and impossible technicalities, piled nose-deep on top of each other.
Impossible. Therefore, it didn't happen. Impossibilites don't.
(But it's a darned good myth! And funny too!)
If you took the time to read the story, you would of understood that it was not just the rain that flooded the earth. The Bible states that the fountains of the deep were opened up. It is believed that the earth's crust collapsed. I believed the earth's diameter is close to 8,000 miles. And the depth of the water during the flood was close to 6 miles. And if science is now telling us that the universe was once so small we could put it in our shirt pocket. Well for you to suggest that anything else would be impossible, especially after that statement. I find that HILARIOUS.
"Oh yes, of course we could put the entire universe in our shirt pocket, that only makes sense. But the idea of an 8,000 mile Diameter earth absorbing 6 miles of water? (IMPOSSIBLE). LOL
I believe your universe in the shirt pocket, is much more of a myth, then the Biblical flood account.
It might have 50,000 in gold coins, as some believed back in 1895.
I don't know why anyone would look for the the Ark anywhere else but near the top of Mt. Ararat. The Bible pretty much tells you where to look. And all the Ark sightings have been near the top of that mountain. To my knowledge, there's been no real historical accounts of Santa Claus sightings near the North Pole. There have been many sightings of the Ark on Mt. Ararat.
I just Goggled and found mention of a 2006 study to locate a possible Ark on the bottom of the Black Sea.
And, as I've proved, it couldn't have happened anyways. Perhaps a regional flash flood that might have carried away a few unfortunate animals. That's it though. The basalt / limestone formation on Ararat is NOT a boat, and certainly not the remains of something that didn't, couldn't have occurred.
Quite simple to grasp, really, once you examine all the implausibilites...
When are you guys going to realise that logic means nothing to a person like C34.
For him to acknowledge any of the overwhelming evidence that proves that evolution is why life occured on this planet, would mean Genesis is a lie.
For him, a 900 houndred year old man skippering a boat that would have broken it's own back ( according to the biblical dimensions ) in 28,000ft of water, with every species of insect, bird, dinosaur,& mammal etc on the planet, is completely plausable.
And for you guys, the idea that it was once possible for us to put our entire universe in one's shirt pocket is equally plausable. So who's lacking logic here? At least, we have oral traditions from around the world that back the Biblical flood. And we have numerous eyewitinesses that claim to of seen the Ark encased in a glaicer near the top of Mt.Ararat. The same place the Bible tells us it landed. Of course you have your theories, yet the Bible is supported by historical facts, and eyewitiness accounts.
I just Goggled and found mention of a 2006 study to locate a possible Ark on the bottom of the Black Sea.
And, as I've proved, it couldn't have happened anyways. Perhaps a regional flash flood that might have carried away a few unfortunate animals. That's it though. The basalt / limestone formation on Ararat is NOT a boat, and certainly not the remains of something that didn't, couldn't have occurred.
Quite simple to grasp, really, once you examine all the implausibilites...
A limestone formation does not have cages in it, with iron bars rifleman.
And the only thing you have proved, is that you did not fully read the Biblical account. And that is why you only considered the amount of rain fall, and never onced spoke of the fountains of the deep opening.
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Do you see that? This was not from an uprooted olive branch that had been soaking and floating around in saltwater for a few months, and killing it. No, it was "freshly plucked" from an olive tree, which only grew in the foot hills. Now, can you come up with a scenario of an ark climbing up to this ludicrous elevation you suggest, after the water has subsided to below the foot hills?
This story's a bit "pitchy"!
