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So are you saying that a fetus is not a living soul until it is born. I remember a past life regression book where people who were hypnotised said that the soul didn't enter the baby until just before or right after the birth of the child, but those that were for abortion, after having gone through this experience under hypnosis, were now against abortion for some reason.
but isn't it true that a baby has emotions when still in the womb? Not sure, but good thing to look up. For anyone interested this is what I found so far:
From mother to fetus: effects of maternal emotions (http://www.isisweb.org/ICIS2000Program/web_pages/group333.html - broken link)
What if this process of birth were not hidden in the womb but was there for all to see. How would people then view it? Here is a video:
Would they be able to destroy the egg? Would they also be able to destroy it when it began to look human? But would their views change because they can see it?
Excellent post. I wish I could give you a million reps. I too have been through religions, many Christian, even Hindusim and Buddhism. And like you I studied certain things and know that the Bible is contaminated. But even if it weren't I think the Bible was just man's beliefs about what he felt God was, and that those beliefs evolved over time. When I read what Christ had to say, which has also been changed, I found Buddha's words. But I can accept that Christ had a lot fo say that was good, so did Buddha, but I don't accept all that they claim that Buddha or Christ taught either.
....
MattieJoe, It is kind of sad that the bible is so contaminated when you really think about it. When I realized that, I was overcome with grief. It took me the better part of a year to move through the stages of grief. If the bible was true, and the god described therein was able to actually help mankind, can you imagine the beauty? It would be awsome. It's too bad that it just isn't so.
However, that does not give license to immoral behavior. On the contrary, it makes moral behavior even more important. We have only one life to live, and if we can't make the world a better place, then not only will we be dead--but so will any goodness we could have created.
Interestingly, if you look at the history of philosophy--not philosophy itself, but the history of it--you will find that philosophies which expound evil typically self-destruct within a generation or two. Only those philosophies which expound and teach good really survive. Now that I've said that, I'm sure someone will point out an exception to the rule...but as a consistent theme through human existence this is true.
Last edited by dcashley; 03-10-2009 at 12:35 PM..
Reason: spelling...
03-10-2009, 12:52 PM
2K5Gx2km
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie Jo
Shiloh,
There are many books that speak about Ra, etc. You may wish to read Pagan Christs by John Mackinnon Robertson. It is a thick book that lists all the pagan Christs and how they were all said to be Gods, they also saved people from their sins, they were cruicified, they were born of virgins, etc.
By the way, a slave is a slave, is a slave. In the Bible they could beat them to an inch of their death, and if they die right away it is wrong, if they live for two days and die, well, that is okay.
This is why I asked for primary sources. These books are bogus. It is so funny that you believe this stuff but question the Bible. Here are some articles that bring things back to reality.
MattieJoe, It is kind of sad that the bible is so contaminated when you really think about it. When I realized that, I was overcome with grief. It took me the better part of a year to move through the stages of grief. If the bible was true, and the god described therein was able to actually help mankind, can you imagine the beauty? It would be awsome. It's too bad that it just isn't so.
However, that does not give license to immoral behavior. On the contrary, it makes moral behavior even more important. We have only one life to live, and if we can't make the world a better place, then not only will we be dead--but so will any goodness we could have created.
Interestingly, if you look at the history of philosophy--not philosophy itself, but the history of it--you will find that philosophies which expound evil typically self-destruct within a generation or two. Only those philosophies which expound and teach good really survive. Now that I've said that, I'm sure someone will point out an exception to the rule...but as a consistent theme through human existence this is true.
I still believe in God and believe that we continue after death, but I can't prove it. I also think that the Bible has done a lot of harm, as have many religions. I can understand what you mean by being overcome with grief. I have felt that way when learning about Christianity and Christians (how they treat others) and even when leaving Hinduism. But I left with an experience of God and that has changed things for me. It isn't the God of the Bible but that of the mystics. I think of Christ as a mystic, but I also know that they have changed his teachings somewhat.
It would be beautiful if God could help mankind, but now in other religions they teach that we are God, that God is within us all, so that leaves the ball in our court, so to speak. I believe that there is One Consciousness and that it created everything and is in everything. We are part of that One Consciousness. But to say that my beliefs are Hindu could very well be wrong, as I don't agree with all their teachings. To say that I only know that there is a God and that this God is Love is all I can really say about this God. I do know that this God does not answer prayers.
When I walked away from all religion I just looked within for guidance, for what I believe and don't believe. I don't believe that we should cause suffering to each other, and I feel that many religions cause much suffering, and I believe we should help our fellow man, and many religions don't do that. I think Christians do in many ways when they are charitable, but often with a message that you will go to hell if you don't accept Christ. So the judgments come in. When I saw that I am against abortion for most part; that is for me, and it isn't for me to judge another. I am not in another woman's shoes to know what it is like to be pregnant and not married and to have to make a choice. And I happen to believe that all are saved. But this has nothing to do with the Bible, which is not God's word, but with knowing that God does not judge.
I think of the bible as an evolution of how man viewed God, but at the same time there were always mystics that meditated and knew certain things to be true and there is a sprinkle of that in the Bible. Not enough for me to accept any of it.
I also think that morals is cultural. For example, when Jesus said, "Love your neighbor as yourself," in those days he was referring to one's tribe. And so in the bible you have tribes killing other tribes and that is okay. But I believe that it should mean to love all mankind no matter what race, creed, or country they live in.
And I agree that you don't have to believe in God at all and yet be highly moral. Some of the most moral people that I have met are atheists.
A great book that you may really like and that may explain some things that I am trying to explain to you is "Why God Won't Go Away." Read the comments on it at the bottom of the page: http://www.amazon.com/Why-God-Wont-G...6713036&sr=1-1
Last edited by Mattie Jo; 03-10-2009 at 01:27 PM..
This is why I asked for primary sources. These books are bogus. It is so funny that you believe this stuff but question the Bible. Here are some articles that bring things back to reality.
Some of them are long and detailed which makes me think you will ignore them. Oh well at least they are there for someone to read.
Sorry, but I don't buy this. What I have learned from Hinduism is that their so-called Christs are also from virgin births, and their gurus save their disciples. So much like Christ. Buddha also had such a life. When I first read the life of Buddha I was shocked and realized that his life was very much like Christ's and he had the same parables, and yet he lived 500 years before Christ. When I compared his teachings with Christ's they were the same, and yet he came way before Christ. These so called Krishas (Christs) in Hinduism also came back after they died. The concept of Christianity is not new.
This God of the Bible is also a very vengeful and judgemental God that has killed more people than Hitler never dreamed of. I could never consider worshipping such a God, but then I can't see worshipping any God.
But mystical experiences are the same no matter what religion a person is in. I can accept mystical experiences.
It is so funny that you believe this stuff but question the Bible. .
Ugh....huh?
03-10-2009, 02:42 PM
2K5Gx2km
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie Jo
Sorry, but I don't buy this. What I have learned from Hinduism is that their so-called Christs are also from virgin births, and their gurus save their disciples. So much like Christ. Buddha also had such a life. When I first read the life of Buddha I was shocked and realized that his life was very much like Christ's and he had the same parables, and yet he lived 500 years before Christ. When I compared his teachings with Christ's they were the same, and yet he came way before Christ. These so called Krishas (Christs) in Hinduism also came back after they died. The concept of Christianity is not new.
This God of the Bible is also a very vengeful and judgemental God that has killed more people than Hitler never dreamed of. I could never consider worshipping such a God, but then I can't see worshipping any God.
But mystical experiences are the same no matter what religion a person is in. I can accept mystical experiences.
Why do you keep just stating things as if they are true - where are your primary sources - please stop the maddness. Your completely decieved and misunderstanding the other traditions. Christianity is not about mystical experiences (I can get those from drugs - no religion needed). Jesus died and rose once not some reincarnation or some ongoing rising and dying fertility gods who were choped up and reassembled. Like I said you could not have read one of those articles and yet you comment on them as if you have by just dismissing them and then turn around and act as if God is worse than Hitler. Just hyperbolic rhetoric. If you can not give primary sources for a belief stop trying to spin this crap.
Shiloh, This is a thread on abortion, not pagan christs. Maybe you can start a thread on it and I will pay more attention with proofs, etc. I also take responsibility for it getting off track. So if you get a thread started I will get some references going.
Actually, I had already started one, but too few posts to keep it going:
First, we all spent too much time taking the Bible literally or twisting it to fit a purpose. How about just living according to one's own moral and ethical sense of what is right and wrong without constantly combing the Bible, even if you are a Christian?
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