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The problem is, the hostages see bank robbers as protectors, or religious equivalent of "heavenly loving fathers". Now do you see the connection between Stockholm Syndrome and religious syndrome?
The hostages aligned themselves with the bank robbers for a very specific reason, which drew upon an unconscious dynamic (defensively, by default) for a very specific purpose: To survive. June hardly thinks that they equated or thought of the bank robbers as being equivalent to one's thinking of a "heavenly loving father."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic
The key dynamic is using fear to control the victims. In either religion or Stockholm cases, victims do not see themselves as victims, instead, they see the aggressors as loving figures.
The key dynamic is instilling terror/fear into the person, and then kindness...Such that the victim 'identifies' with the aggressor in the end.
Nonetheless, June still thinks it is something of a 'leap' to equate religious belief with that of Stockholm Syndrome...
The hostages aligned themselves with the bank robbers for a very specific reason, which drew upon an unconscious dynamic (defensively, by default) for a very specific purpose: To survive. June hardly thinks that they equated or thought of the bank robbers as being equivalent to one's thinking of a "heavenly loving father."
...
Christians like yourself live in the fear of going to hell through out the life. It is a matter of survival to do religious stuff: pray everyday, pay church ... still no assurance of being "saved". And this is why God is seen as "heavenly loving father".
Hostages like those in Stockholm lived in the fear of death during the holdup. It was matter of survival to comply with the robbers: pray for their own lives, opening the vault ... still no assurance of not dying. And that was why the robbers were seen as "protecting loving figures".
Christians like yourself live in the fear of going to hell through out the life. It is a matter of survival to do religious stuff: pray everyday, pay church ... still no assurance of being "saved". And this is why God is seen as "heavenly loving father".
Hostages like those in Stockholm lived in the fear of death during the holdup. It was matter of survival to comply with the robbers: pray for their own lives, opening the vault ... still no assurance of not dying. And that was why the robbers were seen as "protecting loving figures".
Analogies go on ...
Not that you seem to bother reading any of the posts nor do any serious thinking about the subject . . . but you are arguing with an atheist psychotherapist (June7th). You also seem to be very uninformed and simply spouting emotional garbage against the religion you hold some grudge about . . . especially the giving of money to the church. Your posts are very unenlightened and unenlightening and laced with ignorant bigotry.
Christians like yourself live in the fear of going to hell through out the life. It is a matter of survival to do religious stuff: pray everyday, pay church ... still no assurance of being "saved". And this is why God is seen as "heavenly loving father".
Hostages like those in Stockholm lived in the fear of death during the holdup. It was matter of survival to comply with the robbers: pray for their own lives, opening the vault ... still no assurance of not dying. And that was why the robbers were seen as "protecting loving figures".
The Stockholm Syndrome is a psychological phenomenon where a kidnap victim or a hostage becomes sympathetic to their captors. The term comes from a bank robbery in Stockholm Sweden in 1973. The plan went bad and the robbery turned into a hostage situation. At first the hostages were treated badly by the robbers, who were afraid, frustrated and angry. Later though, the captives were shown little kindnesses, bathroom breaks, small talk, a joke here and there. The effect of this was profound. At the end of the ordeal, the hostages were thoroughly sympathetic to their captors, even raising money for their legal defense.
An emotional attachment is created by first terror, and then relief from terror. This is much like Christianity, where the threat of hell is used to put people in a submissive state; then relief is offered in the form of "salvation". Of course not everyone who is a Christian becomes one via this phenomenon, but the use of psychological terrorism is a tried and proven technique to win converts.
thanks for explaining that ive been hearing stckholm syndrom a few times on this forum and was completely ignorant to what it meant......and actually your right thats what the fear based philosophy does-feeds you fear then takes it away so you think that something has changed but if you were never told about the fear then would you need the remedy?-better to find God through sincerety and love and not from fear!
True. If I may add: besides hell as a tool of coercion, "sins" -- Christianity first makes followers into believing they have "sins" (they are not good), and must go to hell. Then it gives them a little relief once a while. This made followers feel their God as "heavenly loving father for being forgiving" -- exactly what Stockholm Syndrome is.
This Syndrome has been testified unwittingly by many Christian posters here.
I find myself agreeing with Vic235. I was a christian fundamentalist. While I respect June's opinion and the obvious education level of the people here, I must also respectfully disagree. I believe you're overlooking the power of fear in religion, especially in fundamentalism, or more extreme faiths. We were grinded in church and elsewhere about hell and sin and wrongdoing and so forth. I remember reading (as a child and young adult) the same verses I read now (in disgust and horror) in pure admiration and adoration of hte unfathomable wisdom of god. Isn't it incredible that under the spell of faith I could see genocide and mass murder as clear indications of the wisdom of god? I was unable to see how disgusting these verses are. Yes, I had my moments as a christian where I felt profound instances of love, but now that I am no longer under that spell I can also see the profound fear I had of not meeting gods standards. I recall being haunted by stories of demon possession and satanic rituals. Those things trully frightened me, and when the preacher on TV taunted me about sin and hell and damnation I listened!!!!!!!!!! Atheists reminded me of spies (blinded by satan) sent to corrupt people. How one cannot see how this is like the Stockholm Syndrome is beyond me. That by itself is just as incredibly moronic as religion is. I understand hte need to be strict in fields of thought, like medicine and rocket science and mathematics, but somehow I don't associate Stockholm Syndrome with the strictness of E=MC^2.
Because religion doesn't invovle someone aiming a gun to your head does not mean people are not being threatened or coerced in some way. It's all mental. Discard the image of a preacher holding the congregation at gun point and replace it with the image of a kindly preacher that offers salvation or the threat of eternal punishment. For a normal sane individual, there's no threat here. They'd just simply walk out of the building laughing. But for someone who's suscpetible to this kind of mind game, it's all too real. It may as well be a preacher aiming a gun at their head because that's how it seems to some of them. Remember, this isn't about sane reasonable people. If that's how you're going to look at this, then maybe you shouldn't be studying it? Study something you'll understand better. As I see it, impressionable people are falling victim to this and we shouldn't ignore it just because we think it's not real unless someone is holding a gun. That's irresponsible.
The threat of hell and damnation means nothing until you believe what the preacher is saying. Once you believe that sin is real and that god rules this universe and that the bible is his true written word then the threat of hell and damnation becomes real. It's all mental. When god or jesus or whoever offers you refuge from hell or eternal damnation it gives you a sense of relief and thankfulness, but this relief never completely satisfies you because so long as we live on this earth we're vulnerable to the lies and deceit of the devil. It's a dangerous scary world unless you surround yourself with prayer and people who practice the faith. It's not the kind of world I would imagine if I was imagining something optimistic. In fact, as I see it, this would fit the framework of a horror movie more than it would fit the framework of an uplifting movie. One of the scariest movies I saw when I was still somewhat of a christian was Event Horizen. That movie terrifed me the first time I watched it. Somehow, it reminded me of my faith in god and my fears of an eternity in hell. The movie was terribly suffocating in how it portrayed human achievement. It was basically saying that not even the biggest and most advanced piece of technology or kernel of knowledge is going to save you from what's on the other side. And what's there will haunt you forever. So I think it's not uplifting, but then again, I'm an EX-christian, so I obviously will see this issue differently than a christian will.
How easy it would be for religious institutions, if they had control of the state, to justify acts of cruel and inhumane punishment against other populations of life or people. Afterall, they have GOD as an example, don't they? If some christian with mental instabilities becomes president and claims god spoke to him in a dream, we'd be a heartbeat away from mass murder. I'm certain, based on my own experiences, that christians would make up BS to justify the madness that would ensue even though they would be aware of the craziness brought on by a pscyho that somehow became president. There're many moderate, intelligent christians who can think clearly, but there're probably more than a handfull that could start world war 3 and be the next hitler. Our biggest mistake as historians is making hitler larger than life. By making him so masterfully evil we have seemingly made him non-human. Thusly, as I see it, we're more likely to produce a hitler now that we have given him god-like status in our history books. Humans != God-like. I can easily see a day when religion has become too powerful, causing people to commit acts of crime that're unimaginable. The worst crimes are the ones that we blindly commit and do not feel are wrong. Those are the ones that I relate most to this discussion because faith can make you do blatantly erroneous things just like that.
It's the fool that overlooks the danger of what this all means. Be warned! Always be on guard. Religion is coy about its inner demons.
Not to say that other things can't harm us. In my mind, religion is just ignorance. Any kind of ignorance can threaten us. While this is true, religion is kind of like organized, industrialized ignorance. Thus, it's a more significant presence that's harder to "smoke out."
Last edited by John02049; 10-05-2010 at 04:57 AM..
As for the idea that christians or other religious followers have not emulated their "aggressor", or in this case their god, what source of evidence is this derived from? What about the crusades? What about the terrorist bombings? What about the attacks on abortion clinics? What about homophobia and and other hate crimes that can (sometimes anyway) be linked to pre-existing religious faith? What about Bush claiming that god spoke to him and that this influenced his choices during his administration? Why is it that the old testament reads almost one for one as a general summary of human civilization? Replace God in the bible with Mankind and it would really not change the meaning for me. And, in general, the genocide that god is guilty of in the bible is on a level that christians are not supposed to understand, so unless god speaks to you in a dream you're not given authority to fully emulate his actions. Gods ways are not mans ways and the ten commandments don't really apply to him, they apply to us. So, as stated, unless you're special and god speaks to you, you cannot commit genocide.
But to the effect that "god" haunts christians by threatening them with eternal damnation, and then them turning around and worshipping him in return, I see them as victims or prisoners. This is especially true for the extreme denominations. The trouble some parents put their children through to brainwash them should be a crime. It's an attack on truth. The gospel of ignorance. They're blinding their children and not giving them a good start in life so that they understand how things work and can be their best. They deserve to be rescued somehow. I don't look at religion like this as a positive thing. I just can't see it that way. Perhaps some people do, but I sure don't. I don't see how a religion that's intolerant of reality is good unless you mince words and ignore the things people lose in their pursuit of intolerant faiths.
Last edited by John02049; 10-05-2010 at 05:40 AM..
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