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Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is no hell.
It is said that God gave man free will.
This to me, means that God gave man dominion over himself and over the earth. Without any restrictions or coercion from Him.
The idea then that He would mean that we must do as He says or go to hell cannot be a true concept if the term free will is to mean anything.
If we as parents give or allow our children to have freedom when they leave our homes, then that means that we give up any right or responsibility to punish them.
To keep things simple, let us say that the rules of my home includes making the bed.
I notice when visiting my children in their home, that they have chosen not to make their beds.
I then would be out of line to reprimand or punish them for not making their beds. They are free to do so or not if they have free will.
This seems right. It is no longer my place as a father to punish them. They are free and have dominion over themselves.
God then should not and would not hold a hell over our heads to demand compliance to His rules.
Is free will with consequences from God, hell for non compliance, free will at all?
Is being free to only follow His rules free will?
Has God given up the right to punish free men?
Do we truly have dominion on earth?
God gave us the free will , but we are responsible for our choices , and we have to bear the consequences of it
i don't see "free will" in contradiction with the consequences of our choices
from my point of view
you have the free will to believe or disbelieve , and you have the free will to be good person or to be bad person . but anyway you should to know that the consequences of this choice will be differ than the consequences of the other choice , yet you have the free will to choose whatever you want from them
Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is no hell.
It is said that God gave man free will.
This to me, means that God gave man dominion over himself and over the earth. Without any restrictions or coercion from Him.
The idea then that He would mean that we must do as He says or go to hell cannot be a true concept if the term free will is to mean anything.
If we as parents give or allow our children to have freedom when they leave our homes, then that means that we give up any right or responsibility to punish them.
To keep things simple, let us say that the rules of my home includes making the bed.
I notice when visiting my children in their home, that they have chosen not to make their beds.
I then would be out of line to reprimand or punish them for not making their beds. They are free to do so or not if they have free will.
This seems right. It is no longer my place as a father to punish them. They are free and have dominion over themselves.
God then should not and would not hold a hell over our heads to demand compliance to His rules.
Is free will with consequences from God, hell for non compliance, free will at all?
Is being free to only follow His rules free will?
Has God given up the right to punish free men?
Do we truly have dominion on earth?
Regards
DL
We have the free will to mature on our own knowing what the consequences of various behaviors are . . . like walking off a 12 story building and trying to violate the law of gravity. The consequence isn't a punishment . . . but it is a consequence. Obviously we are supposed to develop a spiritually mature soul because its fate would be superior to failure to do so. No punishment either . . . just consequence. Imagine an embryo infant not physically maturing properly. Is its fate a punishment?
God gave us the free will , but we are responsible for our choices , and we have to bear the consequences of it
i don't see "free will" in contradiction with the consequences of our choices
from my point of view
you have the free will to believe or disbelieve , and you have the free will to be good person or to be bad person . but anyway you should to know that the consequences of this choice will be differ than the consequences of the other choice , yet you have the free will to choose whatever you want from them
Let me build a scenario. God says that at a four way stop, the only turn he likes is a right turn. If you turn left or go straight, you go to hell.
Are you free to turn left or go straight? Only if you want to burn in hell. You are therefore restricted to a right hand turn.
This is not exercising your free will but taking orders and avoiding retribution.
The same goes for the free will to believe or disbelieve. God is saying believe and heaven awaits. Disbelieve and fry in hell.
These are not free choices are they.
Right?
You might also re read what I said about children. Do your parents have a right to impose their rules in tour house. The house of a free man?
hell is the accumulation of pay back that comes from our rotten life, nobody or nothing does it to us, its just the bomarang effect. with these 2 hands i did it all.
if i close my eyes and cross on the red, the car hits me, did god strike me down?
[quote=MysticPhD;8575640]We have the free will to mature on our own knowing what the consequences of various behaviors are . . . like walking off a 12 story building and trying to violate the law of gravity. The consequence isn't a punishment . . . but it is a consequence. Obviously we are supposed to develop a spiritually mature soul quote]
Eve was to do so as well. To do so, knowledge of good and evil are required. When she ate of it to gain that moral sense, god punished her.
Strange no?
Man was then given dominion to rule over himself and nature. All is fine if he rules the way God likes but if he deviates form God's will then hell is the reward. We are free or we are ruled. If we are free then we create our own consequences for our actions. If we are ruled then God imposes his.
Which are we, free or slaves to God's hell?
If old enough, do your kids fear your punishment and must still do as you say or are they free to make choices and suffer or enjoy whatever consequences they earn?
You're assigning "rights" to God? I'm curious to know about the pedestal you seem to be standing on.
Just one high enough for you to kiss my butt the way God wants us to kiss his.
I ask questions and make statements. If you do not like the answers that you would have to give and stay honest then that is your hypocritical problem.
hell is the accumulation of pay back that comes from our rotten life, nobody or nothing does it to us, its just the bomarang effect. with these 2 hands i did it all.
if i close my eyes and cross on the red, the car hits me, did god strike me down?
I do not care how rotten a life someone lives. To sin for 120 yrs. and have to spend 12000000000000000000000000000000+ yrs in hell is immoral.
The only one who might deserve that is God himself for using genocide on all but 8 in Noah's day. Children, babies or animals who cares eh. Drown them all.
We have the free will to mature on our own knowing what the consequences of various behaviors are . . . like walking off a 12 story building and trying to violate the law of gravity. The consequence isn't a punishment . . . but it is a consequence. Obviously we are supposed to develop a spiritually mature soul quote]
Eve was to do so as well. To do so, knowledge of good and evil are required. When she ate of it to gain that moral sense, god punished her.
Strange no?
Man was then given dominion to rule over himself and nature. All is fine if he rules the way God likes but if he deviates form God's will then hell is the reward. We are free or we are ruled. If we are free then we create our own consequences for our actions. If we are ruled then God imposes his.
Which are we, free or slaves to God's hell?
If old enough, do your kids fear your punishment and must still do as you say or are they free to make choices and suffer or enjoy whatever consequences they earn?
Regards
DL
The genesis story depicts a basic learning experience . . . nothing more. We all have to have them . . . they establish the basis from which further learning proceeds. The disobedience established the basic idea that there are things that our body will want to do that have good consequences and things that have bad consequences. Without any external teaching of this fundamental characteristic . . . we would respond to ALL of our inner drives as good . . . no distinctions.
The point being that we are embryo spirits that must mature properly to be reborn as Spirit . . . just as physical embryos must. But a physical embryo is not aware and does not affect the development. We are and MUST affect the development by distinguishing among our thoughts and behaviors to mature properly . . . (or miscarry). There is no punishment . . . just success or failure.
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