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So let me get this straight. We all are sinners because Adam and Eve ate forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge? God told them not to touch it but they did anyway.... That's a hell of a sin to be punished for.
So, based on this, i'm coming to conclusion that God wanted to keep humans stupid, uneducated, and in the dark. What exactly are we punished for and why are we sinners?
Now, when a child is born, and is not being baptized, he's going to hell because of original sin? Ok, so if I follow this correctly, if you are baptized, then your original sin washed out, and you're going to heaven.
Second question:
Adam and Eve supposedly are first humans on earth. They had 2 sons, one was killed and another one ran off to see his uncle. Uncle? Where did uncle come from??
How did we multiply, if we all came from Adam and Eve, does it mean we are all inbreds?
None of these make sense to me, how can i possibly have any believes, when i don't understand the whole scenerio, what exactly do i need to believe? From the very beginning of the Bible there is nothing believable, it's more of a fable the anything else.
I do not believe in God, afterlife or any of this stuff, but I am curious as to why anyone would believe in a fable.
Well, to a christian it's not a fable!
Which is difficult to explain it all here on this forum. Not that it is difficult but the space and words to share what you are asking.
My suggestion that the book of John in the bible in the New Testament has a lot of information to what you are asking. I suggest for you to maybe start there.
In that God is going to speak to you there! I know this truly with all my heart. This won't cause you to get confused by so many opinions and you will receive the right direction about what you are asking.
God never turns anyone away one who is seeking for answers! He isn't like that.
Ok, this is what I believe and why, every human has inherited the sin nature of Adam and Eve, Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and fall short of God's glorious standard". But if we have asked Jesus to forgive us of these sins and He is in our heart, we are forgiven.
You cannot make yourself believe and no one can force to believe. As Christians we have the Holy Spirit who reveals the truth (that we believe) to us. 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But people who aren't Christians can't understand these truths from God's Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them because only those who have the Spirit can understand what the Spirit means".
I do not believe there is any saving power in baptism, I believe it is important because Jesus said we should do it as a sign of becoming a new person in Christ, but it does not save, only Jesus saves. As far children, there is an age of accountability, which is different for everyone, if a child dies before this age, they go straight to Heaven.
I have a personal relationship with Jesus, I believe in my heart that the Bible is the Word of God, and all true, if you want to understand this you can ask God to reveal His truth to you, and He will.
As far the rest of your question about Adam and Eve multiplying, I really don't know, maybe someone else can come in and answer that one.
Last edited by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA; 07-07-2008 at 09:50 AM..
Reason: left out word
All would have sinned even if Eve had never eaten of the forbidden fruit. She was just the first to do so. Although God created us in His image, He did not make us robots. The result of Eve eating the forbidden fruit was that death came upon all mankind, not sin ! True, she and Adam became aware of sin at that time, but that is not the reason all are guilty of sin. We are guilty of sin because of our nature to be sinners. God did not make us to be sinners, but gave us the right to chose. Sadly everyone at some time in their life choses to sin. God gave His only begotton Son so that we can be cleansed of that sin...but only if we believe in Him and obey Him.
I remember when I questioned the existence of God.... but, He made Himself known in my life.
You ask good questions. There is much to be learned from Adam and Eve... but your statement about the uncle is an interesting interpretation! In those first chapters of the Bible there are so many simple truths. You can see how man chose his will over God's will and fell. Adam immediately blamed his wife for his mistake instead of taking personal responsibility for his choice...
Shortly after the fall, there was the first murder ... because one brother was jealous of another brother. Sounds pretty realistic to me...
God gave man free will. He did not want man to be separated from Him - or stupid... as you said. But He wanted us to choose to love Him...
God's desire was to be reconciled with His creation. Throughout the Old Testament you can see how God worked with man to achieve His purpose. The New Testament is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies...when "He provided a lamb"...
Jesus was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world... He was there with God in the beginning.... God loved his creation so much that He sent His Son to die on the cross so that through Him we could be reconciled....
God bless you!
Last edited by World Citizen; 07-07-2008 at 10:37 AM..
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Shep's Mom
None of that ever made sense to me either, even when I was a practising Christian (trying hard to be anyway). Every time I asked a question such as that I was told to read something and the answers would "come to me", or that I simply had to have faith...etc etc etc. I guess I am guilty of thinking too much, asking too many questions...but I can't help being who I am in that way. I question.,..and when the answers are always (Just have faith) or (Just read the Bible), it doesn't help.
I do believe there is some higher "something"...George Carlin described it as The Great Electron...but as far as the stories of the Bible, they are simply allegory to me and I no longer try to figure out the answers because the answers do not exist.
I do not believe in God, afterlife or any of this stuff, but I am curious as to why anyone would believe in a fable.
Probably because a fable brings more comfort than the unknown? Isn't this how religions (and philosophies) started; to be able to answer the unanswerable questions?
I hear so many people become so discouraged with the Bible because they read that God punishes people for sinning. That's one way to look at it. Through my continued study of the Bible I understand it with a different frame around it. God's original purpose for humans did not end in the Garden of Eden.
God created humans with free will in His image. Not physical image necessarily, but with qualities. Adam and Eve's sin was disobedience. They were given everything, including boundaries/rules, which as we know humans need. Satan, an angel who also was created with free will chose to rebel and basically said that humans can rule themselves...they don't need God. He mislead Eve, telling her she wouldn't die if she disobeyed and ate from the tree that God said not to. But what was God's original purpose? What would have happened on the Earth, to Adam and Eve and all of their offspring, if they stood up to Satan in the beginning? From what I understand of the Bible, they would have lived forever on the Earth in perfect conditions, under God's direction. Were they told they were going to Heaven or Hell? No, they were told they would die...and they did!
The knowledge of good and bad...everything in the Garden of Eden was good under God's direction. Without God's direction we truly have learned about the bad.
This period of time since Adam and Eve God has allowed humans to try to rule themselves, putting that argument to rest forever. Have humans found a form of government that works? Have humans found a way to prevent crime and keep law abiding citizens safe? Have humans found a way to prevent dying? It's been thousands of years, and I think we have proven Satan wrong. Humans cannot rule themselves.
So you can think of this world/life/system (whatever you want to call it) as a punishment, but I tend to think of it as a generous amount of time to allow humans to attempt to govern ourselvse.
As for Satan, he's not in some Hell overseeing an eternal place of torment. He's right here on Earth trying to continue to mislead humans just as he did in the Garden of Eden. He has very little time left before God puts an end to this rebellion once and for all. Satan will be destroyed.
But God knows that even after all this time that has passed there will still be faithful people who recognize Him and follow his "rules". He will set matters straight and his orginal purpose will be accomplished.
The Bible does not tell parents to baptize their infants. It's a doctrine that has no Biblical foundation that I have ever found. Children fall under the umbrella of their parents until they are of an age to decide for themselves. In the Bible it tells over and over about teaching people and letting them come to an accurate knowledge before they get baptized. Parents are responsible for teaching their children about God. Infant baptisms seem more of a superstition to me.
Adam and Eve had 2 sons, Cain killed Able. Adam and Eve had other children as well, that was their job afterall- to fill the Earth. Cain took one of his sisters as his wife and they went out away from the rest of the family. I don't know where you got the uncle thing.
Yes, back then they did engage in procreation with their siblings...sounds a little nicer than incest. But they were closer to perfection, having just left the Garden of Eden...plus this was God's commandment to fill the Earth. Eventually this practice is prohibited in the Bible. It sounds gross to us now but that does not cause me to disregard God.
I believe it because it makes sense to me. That's the only way I can explain why I believe it. I'm a normal, rational, reasonable educated person. I'm not a lunatic in a cult. There are many false doctrines out there that are not rooted in the Bible so it can be very confusing. The Bible speaks for itself, though.
Last edited by beeveenh; 07-07-2008 at 11:06 AM..
Reason: typo, I really do proof read...but I always find something after I post!!
Thank you everyone for taking time and replying, but i'm affraid i have not recieved an answer. Everything you said isn't proof, or even explanation for any questions i asked. I'm starting to wonder if those who believe, trully know what they believe.
Everything i learned about how everything works around here is from chemistry, physics and mathematics.
I will never understand how virgin can get pregnant. Is there any first hand encounters of this happening? Who said she was a virgin in the first place? Did anyone check?
Back to Adam and Eve. I ones saw a show on TV called 'Original Eve", the show was about origination of humans somewhere in Africa, and that original Eve was black. True or false? Don't know, can't comment on that.
I still don't get what our sin is. Just because Eve ate an apple, doesn' make her a sinner. You said God didn't make us sinners, apparently, he wanted to do so, otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned the forbidden fruit... Right? Isn't it kind of selfish for an almighty God, don't ya think?
You have lots of questions about the Bible. That's good, we all need to ask questions and understand. God made a perfect earth, man and woman had a free will. They sinned. By sinning they alienated themselves from God who is SINLESS. Jesus died on the cross for our sin, so those who beleive on him and ask him to be their saviour are redeemed back to God - sinless through Jesus.
You are asking for scientific proof of Mary and the immaculate conception. Sounds impossible - But if God is able to create a whole world, why should this be difficult for him.
We are humans and can only understand limited amounts - the spiritual realm takes faith - but not a blind faith. Rather a considered faith - looking around, seeing a creation that must have been created. Looking towards God - asking for understanding from him.
Eve didn't just eat an apple. She disobeyed God. Disobediance is a sin. She chose her own way. And we choose our own way - of ourseleves we are capable of much wrong even evil. We all get to choose good and evil everyday. Through Jesus we are able to have new life, we are set free from the power of sin over us.
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Shep's Mom
. But they were closer to perfection, having just left the Garden of Eden...plus this was God's commandment to fill the Earth. Eventually this practice is prohibited in the Bible. It sounds gross to us now but that does not cause me to disregard God.
