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The Egyptians and Chinese were recording life before the Pyramids were being built so I don't see what that has to do with it but anyway, according to your Bible chronology, your flood was around 2300BCE. The Egyptians were building pyramids in the 3rd Dynasty which was c2700BCE....so you're wrong anyway.
My Bible chronology? My Bible chronlolgy suggest the flood occured around 3500 B.C. or later. Please do not assume to know what my Bible chronlolgy is, and then tell me I'm wrong.
And based on all of the ancient archeological finds around the globe, we know something happend to the earths crust long ago, which sank many technologically advanced civilizations below the seas.
there it is again! A vast over-statement about the existing evidence, of which there are, so far,precisely NONE. Your specific links about those finding off the Japanese coast have only been confirmed in your mind. Ditto for Atlantis, which also, no-one has ever found. They want to find it, but can't. I mean, we found the titanic, but can't find Atlantis, a mega-city with "advanced technology"?
Hmmm... Excuse my hesitation here.
But now, even if I very generously give you both of those, that's only two. Not "many".
And then you generously credit them with being "technologicaly advanced civilizations"? Your Japanese one; how do you know it was"technologically advanced" again? Just because it's now under water? Huh? Howzhat again? They only found some square rocks, for heaven's sake. You keeping documented evidence about their use of radar, or interstellar travel, or materials alloying from us, Tom?
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Originally Posted by Campbell34
The orginal arguement was. The earth does not have enought water to account for a global flood. Yet numerous scientist are now suggesting it has more than enough water for such a flood.
Nope. Not at all what they said. Again, you exaggerate or imagine or hope for. They only say there might be water LOCKED UP IN MICROPORES IN THE ROCKS, IN THE DEEP CRUST, occurring when the crust and the molten rocks formed millions of years ago.
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Nowhere, anywhere, does any one of them say it's available in big, massive ocean-sized, easily accessible pools.
That part's all speculation. Very hopeful, very wishful, but nonetheless impossible, speculation. With no logical basis in reality. And you know it.
And the flood of Noah occured before the pyramids. So why would you believe the Egyptians failed to notice it? And your now known age of the earth belief, is based on assumptions, than can never be proven.
So. Your flood had no impact on those pyramids? BTW, the timeline clearly places the construction of the pyramids right on top of your flood event.
What about the Chinese? ignoring their historic writings,are you/ of course. Damned Chinese, anyhow, huh.
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Originally Posted by Campbell34
The team that found the structure in the cave, did not find driftwood. They found a large structure.
Really? Not even close. Even Ertugrul doesn't make that statement. All they found was wood bits. You're imagining again, tom.
And how much would it cost to confirm the figurines of El Toro mountain? Of course after waiting some 60 years, it might cost a little more do to inflation. Now the fact that your scientist did nothing to confirm that huge find, is really what silliness is all about.
See how you lie at the drop of a hat? I wrote, and e-mailed, the city Fathers (and woman mayor) of Acambara, even addressing one request to the official in charge of "antiquities". Did he answer? did any of them?
Nope. Not a peep.
The cost would have been zippo. My university in Vancouver, Canada, would have dropped the shard or artifact, or many of them, into the laser/XRF machine for free. But sadly, there were no takers.
And why not? Do you want to tell us or should I? But regardless, you will reliably, predictably, re-spout how "scientists refuse to do this" , or "that", or "won't pay for this", or "whatever" you accuse us of without any basis in fact. It's simply not the cause, and sadly, you know it buyt won't admit it.
My offer was made, as you well know, and those modern-day results would have been absolutely conclusive. They would also have removed artifact dating errors that result from the constant handling these have endured, and would have likely proved they were VERY recently made up.
We can't have that though ,now can we?
So, next time you toss out this complete lie, remember; we're on to you!
At least those who went to Mt. Ararat, are making an honest attempt. Your people do nothing but sit on the sidelines. And even when you show them something that could really be tested, all we see from your side is no shows.
Well, I just proved again, that you happily lie about all of this stuff.
As for the Hong Kong "miracle wood", we're waiting. For quite a long time, apparently, especially for something so spectacular and pivotal to Human History. Oddly, there seems to be a lack of good funding. As I said, $20k would get a credible team to the mountain top in the summer, easily.
So why hasn't anyone done this yet? Probably because other recent studies (remote sensing, etc. that you won't read or believe) have shown it to be completely implausible. For all those point-form reasons we've given you so many times. Again and again and again. But surely some church groups could come up with $20k. Oh, and make sure they budget for a good video camera this time. I'll even provide one if they're that desperate.
No? no takers? Well then we'll just have to base our personal conclusions with the crud-quality evidence that thesecharlatans have provided so far.
Otherwise, as they say in legal circles, all your statements and questions to date have been satisfactorily:
My Bible chronology? My Bible chronlolgy suggest the flood occured around 3500 B.C. or later. Please do not assume to know what my Bible chronlolgy is, and then tell me I'm wrong.
No, it was not one of the vents, because the Bible states it was a window that Noah made, and it required him to (open it). And it also states that Noah reached out his hand when the dove returned, and took the dove and brought it back to himself in the ark. I did not have to change any passage, it would require Noah to look out the window to even see the dove. This is pretty much a common sense approach here.
And the Bible makes it very clear, the Ark had already landed by the 7th month, yet you could not see the tops of the mountains, because it took another two and a half months for the water to go down to make that possible.
Genesis 8:3,4,5 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. The waters (CONTINUED TO RECEDE UNTIL THE TENTH MONTH, AND ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE TENTH MONTH THE TOPS OF THE MOUNTIANS BECAME VISIBLE.)
The last three verses point to what could be seen, do to the water level going down, and had nothing to do with what Noah could see by looking out his vent, or window. The Bible simply states that 2 and a half months after the Ark of Noah landed, the tops of the other mountains could be seen.
2 Tim. 3:16. All Scripture is given by the inspiration of God. And since this is Scripture, it matters little who was doing the writing here.
Also, when the Russion pilots saw the Ark, they did report that it appears as part of the roof was removed, which would help to confirm the Biblical account.
Campbell, you're talking absolute nonsense. On the one hand, you try to claim how real it all is, but then you fall back on fantasy like a child picking out bits and pieces that appeal to you. Let's take a moment to look at the reality of what such an event would actually entail without necessarily dismissing the Biblical account.
Show me where in the Bible it uses the word "vents" in relation to the Ark. I suppose vents could be permanent openings, but on a craft such as an Ark, it's more likely they could be opened and closed, in effect "covering" the Ark. If they were permanently opened, you'd have a flood of water pouring into the craft from the rain of the intense storm as well as huge amounts of ocean spray from the pounding waves. And if waves were large enough, which is likely if the entire planet was covered under water, you'd have a lot more than just a misty spray pouring in. The vents would have to remain closed. There's NOTHING I know of that indicates Noah was an experienced seafaring man. If anything, his experience appears to be more in the area of woodworking and farming. He was INSTRUCTED to build the Ark with certain specifications. The "window" remained closed (covered) and was not opened (or uncovered) until he was told to do so.
Use your brain and think about it. This guy and his family, along with loads of nervous animals, are enclosed inside this dark craft. They could probably hear the rain pounding down on it. They might have been able to hear the muffled screams of people outside pleading to get in. It's hard to say because there would have been a lot of noise from the animals inside. After a period of time, they start feel the Ark begin to increasingly creak and tip. Eventually, they can sense it's actually moving. They may have even been uncertain about their own fate. There was no way to control this floating barge. Their imaginations would have been running wild with intense fear, never having experienced or even imagined the reality that such a catastrophic event could ever happen. There's nothing but darkness inside the cavity of the Ark, except for a few weak lanterns, the noise and groans of animals, the constant creaking of the Ark's wood, feeling the craft rock and sway in the stormy waters, and the increasingly powerful stench building up inside.
Under such conditions, would you be willing to open a vent (window) to sneak a peek at what's going on outside? Or would you wait until there's an "all clear" sign that conditions are safe? If Noah was told to "cover" the Ark, do you think he was going to take it upon himself to uncover it when he felt like it? Put yourself in his shoes (or sandals) and ask yourself, what would YOU do in a life-exterminating catastrophe like that, especially when you've never heard of such a thing as that happening before? Would YOU be willing to test God by sneaking a peek outside, and run the risk that God might decide to just let the Ark sink because of your disobedience?
Not convincing enough as reality for you? How about this? I spend a lot of time in Thailand. I was not there at the time of the tsumani. Even if I had been in the country, I would've been far inland, no where near the western coast of the peninsula. But when I was aware of what was happening there, I was horrified by it. There are loads and loads of videos of that event from different countries that were hit by that tsunami. They just leave a person completely speechless at seeing it happen and the result of it. At least half a million people were killed by it. Some of those deaths are shown. Some videos show people in buildings trying to escape to safety, and screaming for their lives. Some people could only watch helplessly as others were swept away to their deaths by massive amounts debris and seawater. And it didn't end there. There was the horrendous stench from bloated bodies buried and recovered under mountains of debris in the cleanup of the aftermath. Take a good look at some of the numerous videos that show what took place. Staggering numbers of sheet-covered bodies were held at various location for identification. And in the hot, humid tropical heat, the stench became even worse.
Take a look at the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. While the numbers of the dead wasn't as massive as the SE Asian Tsunami, it was still bad. Bodies of humans and animals had to be recovered.
Some descriptions of people from both the tsunami and the hurricane were that it was like the world was coming to an end. People trapped in those affected areas had few to no safe places for refuge. People fled to rooftops as the water levels rose. Buildings were leveled and houses were submerged under water. Sharp, dangerous debris was piled up everywhere.
After you have seen and really taken in the scope of what happened in those events, then maybe you can better understand the difference between reality and fantasy. If neither of those events make an impact on your mind and intelligence, then I don't know what to tell you except to feel free to sweep away realities all you want. For those people, the event was like the end of the world. For some, it was. But you also have to step back a bit an realize that as horrendous as those massive events were, it was not the end of the world.
I'm not telling you there was no catastrophic flood as indicated in the Bible, but I am describing for your benefit things (such as seeing the mountain tops, the Ark vents, etc., etc.) from a realistic perspective, not from one that's been imagined. There are many moral lessons to be learned from the Bible, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, we also have the ability to discern with a sense of what we perceive as being real. There's nothing wrong with having faith. But having blind faith is subject to loads of errors and mistakes. We have a brain and we have the ability and responsibility to use it. Blind Faith: Is Christian Faith an Irrational Belief in God? | Suite101.com
You seem to be on a personal quest to convince people that Noah's Ark is on Mt. Ararat. All you've provided are blurred, shadowy photos and videos that could be of anything including models, and the tales and claims of various people who have failed to provide one shred of real evidence to support their claims, apart from a small piece of petrified wood. The Russian account is in disagreement with other claims. The claim is that the Russians measured the structure, they even made a rough estimation as to the size of the door. If the Ark was broken, as you've stated, the Russians would have certainly noticed that. But there was nothing indicating that it was indeed broken. It sounds more like it was intact. They went inside the structure and claimed there was edible grain and containers of honey. Edible grain and honey doesn't sound like anything petrified to me. Even so, these are all just words with no evidence to support such a find. Doesn't it strike you as being a bit odd that people in some of the more recent searches fail to take any photos or videos of the structures they claim they saw?
If you want to wrap yourself up with such unconvincing illusions, that's up to you. But you would do well to look at the issue from a realistic perspective, rather than simply believing anything and everything that you come across on the Internet. Some are outright hoaxes, some may simply be misunderstanding matters. Even some of the websites you've posted links say to exercise caution because some are unproven and might just be hoaxes.
Think about this. The Creationist Research groups with claims about dinosaurs and humans co-existing together in recent times, at least present their "evidence" (as wacky as they are) with clear photos in order to support their claims. You, on the other hand, haven't provided anything even remotely clear to support that Noah's Ark is in fact on Mt. Ararat. And anything that anyone says that show why your claims are either incorrect or invalid are promptly dismissed by you. Regardless of their personal beliefs about the supernatural, they've at least tried to provide you with plausible explanations that are based on known facts. But even your explanations of what's in the Bible is jigsawed around by you with claims that other translations (which seem a bit obscure) say exactly what you want to believe. To be honest, I have my doubts that you're in any kind of position of expertise to determine whether certain modern translations are necessarily more accurate than some of the more common or traditional ones.
Can you provide some real and convincing evidence that the Ark is indeed on Mt. Ararat? Saying you just believe it's true doesn't make it so. If not, then don't you think you're only relying on tales and blurred photos? What was the real point in wiping out every speck of human and animal life on the planet, except for those who took refige on the Ark?
In a previous post in this thread, I asked a question that was never answered. The question was this:
If this god is so all powerful and loving of his creations, why kill all of them, even the innocent animals? Why not just wave his hand and wipe out those who offended him and not have to start all over?
If this event were true, it seems this god is terribly inefficient and malicious in his actions.
If this event were true, it seems this god is terribly inefficient and malicious in his actions.
The greatest mass murder to every exist, yet these people see that as a wonderful thing, and worship him. There has to be a major flaw in a person's reasoning ability if they cannot rationalize the blatantly obviously reality.
While it is true that their deity is not a mass murder, for the simple reason this event never occurred, combined with no imaginary deities exist, but they invent this deity to worship for killing 99.999999% of everything on the entire planet. Sorry, that is just sick.
The greatest mass murder to every exist, yet these people see that as a wonderful thing, and worship him. There has to be a major flaw in a person's reasoning ability if they cannot rationalize the blatantly obviously reality.
While it is true that their deity is not a mass murder, for the simple reason this event never occurred, combined with no imaginary deities exist, but they invent this deity to worship for killing 99.999999% of everything on the entire planet. Sorry, that is just sick.
That is the best answer you can come up with as that is pretty lame no offense but very lame.
My Bible chronology? My Bible chronlolgy suggest the flood occured around 3500 B.C. or later. Please do not assume to know what my Bible chronlolgy is, and then tell me I'm wrong.
Actually it occured approximately 4500 years ago making it 2500 B.C.,so yes it would be later.
Actually it occured approximately 4500 years ago making it 2500 B.C.,so yes it would be later.
Wrong again...Every civilization on the planet, except for those in the middle east just carried right on with no knowledge of any world wide flood...Come on guys. A almost total annihilation of every living thing on the planet 4200 years ago is not possible considering what is here today....All that inbreeding would not have allowed it...It's a myth guys, and a very unpleasant one at that.
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Circling the Drain. Again.
