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That does not change the fact that the Bible does say those things and much worse... and it is supposed to be the infallible word of God, right?
For the record, I have read it all, and there are some good and noble concepts espoused, but I do not believe that it is the infallible word of God.
At one time a more severe way of life may have been necessary and at a later point that was less true.
At one time it was perhaps better to accept a rape, or even give the option of the rapist marrying the victim, than risk ticking off a rapist who can get his clan to mess up the place if he's offended. Even now sometimes deals are made. If Hosni Mubarak raped and mutilated some American we might accept it, or cover it up, because we need Egypt as an ally in the Mideast. We certainly know that Saudi royals sexually exploit all kinds of African prostitutes, but we tolerate it because we feel we need their cooperation in certain ventures. (Although I'm not sure it's worth it so I admit it's not a great example)
What God may or may not allow among an ancient clan society in the Mideast doesn't have to define everything for all times. I doubt many Jews or Christians these days would favor the death penalty for having sex with your daughter-in-law or that a couple be "destroyed out of the midst of the people" if they have sex when the woman is having her period.
At one time a more severe way of life may have been necessary and at a later point that was less true.
At one time it was perhaps better to accept a rape, or even give the option of the rapist marrying the victim, than risk ticking off a rapist who can get his clan to mess up the place if he's offended. Even now sometimes deals are made. If Hosni Mubarak raped and mutilated some American we might accept it, or cover it up, because we need Egypt as an ally in the Mideast. We certainly know that Saudi royals sexually exploit all kinds of African prostitutes, but we tolerate it because we feel we need their cooperation in certain ventures. (Although I'm not sure it's worth it so I admit it's not a great example)
What God may or may not allow among an ancient clan society in the Mideast doesn't have to define everything for all times. I doubt many Jews or Christians these days would favor the death penalty for having sex with your daughter-in-law or that a couple be "destroyed out of the midst of the people" if they have sex when the woman is having her period.
Thomas, IMHO there is no reasoning around this. This is the Christian dilemma. The more you try to come up with some kind of plausible explanation the deeper the hole is dug.
We spoke about this a few days ago in another thread. The best thing to do is to leave "God" out of this because when you say this:
Quote:
What God may or may not allow...
you put this deity in a very tight spot. His body of work, as stated in the Old Testament, leaves MUCH to be desired and his critics will jump all over his track record as proof such a deity is nothing more than a bloodthirsty, vengeful, petty immature child that no sane, civilized person in today's world should want to be associated with.
So what is the obvious alternative? This deity is nothing more than a projection of those who presented him to the world. As man can be petty, evil, jealous, devious, ethnocentric, prejudiced, bloodthirsty, vengeful, covetous, manipulative, calculating, this god just so happens to possess the same identical qualities. Conversely, as man can have their glorious moments, so does this god from time to time. Chicken or the egg type situation. This is no mere coincidence. But can the Christian accept this idea? Hardly. So in either case, they find themselves in between a rock and a hard place.
Atheists are as bad as Jehovah's Witnesses these days.
Yes you may leave your pamphlet at the door, but I'm not necessarily looking for a new religion or an irreligion thank you. I accept that you feel some hole exists or that you don't like things that are complicated. Human life, and the life of more complicated beings, often requires explanations or is complicated. If that upsets you or strikes you as "rationalizing" okay. I really have no interest in you changing to anything.
However I read the Old Testament in High School and have reread much of it every so often. I've also read sacred or religious works from other societies in comparison. These things that you want to bother me just don't and never really did. That people of your ilk want them to bother me is interesting, I suppose, but not really persuasive. Possibly because I tend to take the Old Testament as a whole rather than as a bunch of little parts. The whole does provide a description of a society that evolved. And other things I can't explain well. Basically though the OT "trick" of picking out some OT commands or statements to shame a Christian says nothing to me. Sorry.
Last edited by Thomas R.; 10-16-2009 at 12:38 AM..
Come on now Thomas...Read the bible without bias, and you have to come to the same conclusion that I did...It's all a crock of make believe, nothing more.
Atheists are as bad as Jehovah's Witnesses these days.
-snip-
However I read the Old Testament in High School and have reread much of it every so often. I've also read sacred or religious works from other societies in comparison. These things that you want to bother me just don't and never really did. That people of your ilk want them to bother me is interesting, I suppose, but not really persuasive. Possibly because I tend to take the Old Testament as a whole rather than as a bunch of little parts. The whole does provide a description of a society that evolved. And other things I can't explain well. Basically though the OT "trick" of picking out some OT commands or statements to shame a Christian says nothing to me. Sorry.
The problem is that the bible is espoused as the inerrant wurd of gawd and is presented as some form of self authority. If it is inerrant, then there would be no contradictions. Furthermore, all xians would agree on everything seeing they are supposed to be led by the self same holy spook that jesus apparently sent to teh orphans.
Well contradictions exist thus the bible cannot be inerrant. Too many variations of xianity even within your beloved RCC where some have broken away recently but are still "orthodox" and not protestant - thus there concept of holy spook is just an extension of the jesus myth. And this is not a recent phenomenon, it has been happening for a few recorded centuries and all the great leaders claim gawd was talking to them.
So back to the book, if it is allegorical/metaphorical, so too would be the inspirator. It is all just one huge mind****.
31% of the people of France are atheists, so the US has a long way to go, but I think eventually they will get there.
We are over half way there and growing fast. One of the largest minority groups (or I might need to say voting blocks) in the US is now the Non-Religious.
Apparently you didn't read the part where God says "thou shalt not kill", or the other part where the Bible says fornication (illicit sex) is a sin...
I will agree with you however on Saturday being the Sabbath...not Sunday...
Yes, the Bible does have a lot of rape and murder of homosexuals. Of course these are not done on God's people but those other nations or God's people that commit adultry or remain homosexuals. This occured even after the Ten Commandments. But I don't think the Bible says that the sabbath is on Saturday. Who is to say what the seventh day was back then?
Many people confess Jesus as their savior and never even go to church or read the Bible. These same people are divorced and remarried and don't realize that they would be killed for doing this under the law of Moses, but at the same time they want homosexuals to burn in hell because they are evil.
Perhaps it is good that people don't know what is in the Bible; maybe someday this Bible will sit in the back of some shelf at the Library of Congress and never be thought of again. Oh, sorry, I fell to sleep at my computer and just woke up. I was dreaming.
Last edited by Mattie Jo; 10-16-2009 at 04:54 AM..
Are Americans Faking Religiosity? | reasonWeekly (http://reasonweekly.com/reasonweekly-originals/are-americans-faking-religiosity - broken link)
Someone's going to quote II Timothy 3.
I think many Americans believe they are Religious. I think that on average they may attend church once or twice a year and feel they have done their duty to God. Yet they frequent the local pub every friday night, if not more. These are the people who give those funny answers to the bible questions. Probably after they visited the local pub!
So if we take these people into account that would greatly increase the number of people who attend church in America!
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